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Author | Topic: Revolting middle class. If the rich keep funding war with the lives of the lower clas | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Social responsibility. if the intrinsic nature of the rich is to be greedy and selfish, what prevents all humans from having the same nature? People tend to project their own faults on everybody else and call it "human nature". What human nature really is is a struggle between the need to preserve the individual and the need to preserve the species. The greedy and selfish put their individual welfare first but if that really was "human nature" we wouldn't be social animals at all - and we'd probably be extinct.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
You contradict yourself. If some of us rely on society to help us survive then there is no such thing as one member of society being "more fit" than another.
If we do not put our selfishness first, and remain as fit mentally and physically as possible, we could not help the rest of society survive and thrive and would have to rely on it's help us to survive and thus be a drain on it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Not really. Even if Jesus existed, he himself didn't do much for the benefit of the world. He understood the principle of helping each other to preserve the species but unfortunately his followers don't seem to.
Even though you are an atheist you would likely argue that Jesus sacrificed Himself (the individual) for the benefit of the world (preservation of species)
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You're the one who's shooting himself in the foot. It's because Jesus didn't do much that we have to do it.
If Jesus, of all people, didn't do that much good what possible value is it in being a far left idealist liberal who prides himself on giving spare change to the misbegotten in town and who preaches that we all should help the working class up the economic ladder even if at our own expense? Phat writes:
The value of helping people doesn't come from some woo-woo "source". The value of helping people is self-contained.
Just when I think you understand the value of helping the least of these, I somehow find you stubbornly failing to defend the source which makes it all possible.... Phat writes:
Yes, I believe we are the only source of good for humanity. You should know that about me by now. ....unless of course, you believe that we all are our own source and that it is a good thing to put our own futures on hold simply to bring the working class a bit closer to an ideal that we ourselves should ignore! And I'm not asking you to ignore your own future. I'm asking you not to spend it wiping your feet on that homeless guy.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
Wrong. The one who is more fit in one situation may be less fit in another. We help each other; it isn't a one-way street. That's how a society works. There's no divide between the fit helpers and the unfit helpees.
Tell me, if the person who has what it takes to help another who needs it, and he is no fitter than the one he is helping, then the one being helped is not worthy or requiring help as he is as fit as the helpful one. Right?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
What does that have to do with fitness? The tax takers are taxpayers too.
Yes there is a divide between the helpful and fittest and those who need help to be more fit. The divide is taxpayer and tax taker.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
It makes no difference. Tax takers have to pay taxes too - and both are recipients of the benefits of taxes. Fitness is irrelevant.
Would you prefer to be a tax payer or a tax taker?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
I thought you said the opposite, that tax collectors have the advantage.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
Huh? What's the difference between a tax taker and a tax collector? Is English your second language?
Tax takers, not tax collectors, are at the mercy of the generosity of the state. I do not see that as an advantage.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
In English, a person on the dole would be called a welfare recipient, not a "tax taker". A tax collector is the state. A tax taker is on the dole or some other form of state hand out. So back to the topic: How is a welfare recipient "less fit"? He is surviving. He is reproducing. Where does "fitness" come in?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
People were feeding themselves for millennia before there were social programs. Most of the people in the world today don't have any social "safety net".
... if living in a place without social programs, that person will likely starve I he is not fit enough to feed himself. Greatest I am writes:
People DO get off the dole, which seems to negate your point.
If people liked to be beggars or on the dole, they would not be trying to get off of the social programs. Right? Greatest I am writes:
First, there isn't one group who are paying in and one group who are taking out. Second, it still has nothing to do with fitness. The ones on the dole ARE fit to survive; they DO survive. If it hurts your little feelings to think of them as equals, boo hoo, but it doesn't make them "less fit".
To suggest that those who pay the way for others are no more fit than the other is quite insulting to the fit who are footing the bills.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Pressie writes:
Sounds like you need a Trump to fix that.
In my country it's called "social security". More than half of the country's population depend on that grant. Having an average of 6 children per uneducated women by equally uneducated and unknown fathers.The others, who have to pay for it, are leaving the country in droves. A Zimbabwe-type non-future has arrived in SA.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
So tell us why you disagree.
I disagree on all points. Greatest I am writes:
I didn't say anything about equality under the law.
Equality under the law is not equality of outcome until we die.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
They don't starve because they are "less fit". A victim is not "less fit". Calling them "less fit" is doing them a disservice, as if they deserve to die.
You did a disservice to all the millions who starve to death yearly as well as telling the less fit, who know that they are not as fit as some...
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
You can think your way all you want without posting here. But if you're going to post here, back up what you claim. You think your way I will think mine. So far, what you've said about "fitness" is nonsense. Society is a matter of give and take. Those who take also give. You can not determine who is "fit" based on whether they are giving or taking at a given moment.
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