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Author | Topic: The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
are you saying it isn't fair that my parents could have sent me to college while yours couldn't?
You may also know that I take care of my 94-year-old Mom with Alzheimer's at partially my own expense. Is that fair? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
If the wealthy own or control 90+% of everything and benefit the most from corporate profits, why not hold their feet to the fire also? The alternative is to tax the middle class at higher rates so that they essentially have little more than the working class. You think I was horrible for saying not to focus exclusively on the hungry, but I was being metaphorical. Yes, some of us had it easier than others, but by excluding the responsibility of the rich to contribute you are forcing the middle class to become overburdened. Don't you see that?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Your insistence on being above the working class pisses me off. So you would have it that there were only two classes? Rich and working?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And why is that? Because I belong to a union, thank God!
Do you work harder than the non-union cashier at the supermarket down the street? Not necessarily. What difference does it make? We would invite them to join the union also, except that their employer tries to actively prevent us from talking with them about it. If all of the cashiers were in the union, it would be the same as the working class uniting with the middle class, which is apparently what you hope to achieve. Without a union, the employers simply continue to hire more help at cheap-as-possible rates and fire them rather than promote them excepting the few who become managers. We have discussed unionism before. Our last contract was, in fact, one of the top grocery contracts negotiated in the entire country. We helped bring the bottom closer to the top wage bracket. The only sad and telling thing was that few of the workers even bothered to vote. Today's generation only looks to the paycheck at the moment rather than planning long term for their livelihood and health care, it seems.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
NoNukes writes: I totally and fully agree!
Offering minimum wage for any job is fair.It is also fair for the labor market to organize and to negotiate a higher wage. But the combination of minimum wages, and "right to work" laws that deny the ability for workers to negotiate is an unfair combination. It is particularly so when society has to pick up the difference by offering things like SNAP to employees. NCE writes: Negotiations involve both sides. There is no onus on any one side.
... in the sense that the onus is on you to establish your position in a negotiation and not your employer's. if you want to talk about forcing the employers, then no I'm not on board. Are you anti union, then? Because we will call a strike if necessary to protect our position. The alternative is to accept less than what we collectively determine our value to be. We prefer negotiations and voluntary compliance but will use some force(non-violent) if necessary. After all, nobody gets to tell the CEO's what to pay themselves!Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
quote: The unions no longer have the power of collective bargaining, they have to represent the non-union employees without funding, and the strength of the union is greatly diminished.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
If their position in the negotiation has left them with no other choice, then that is their fault and there's no onus on you about it. And that's fair. Just like visa versa - where they're trying to save costs on wages and you're stuck 'cause you can't find a better job. It's doing business. Just because it gets ugly doesn't mean its unfair. Right To Work laws are unfair because they destroy the power of collective bargaining. The whole point of a union involves the ability to collectively bargain.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
How do they go about doing that? Since employees no longer have to belong to the union, they also no longer have to strike. If enough of them negotiate individually rather than collectively, the wage bottom no longer goes up. Strikes become less effective as a negotiating tool.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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We've had unions for a hundred years and the result is that the unionized workers have insulated themselves from the non-unionized workers. I see no evidence of this. My union actively is involved with non-unionized workers who wish to become unionized. The local Dispensaries are a great example---they recently became unionized to a large degree. Read this article: All Hollowed Outquote:I really don't see what more you expect unions to do. We are weaker than we once were, and that is a problem. Right-To-Work laws weaken us further since employees can no longer count on solidarity among the labor force. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The laws make it so that an employee does not have to join the union. In case of a labor dispute, we cannot make the strike as effective with Right To Work in place. Evidence also shows overall wages dropping and lagging in RTW states.
More from this article:quote: I am basically done ranting now. Life could be a whole lot worse than it is. Quite frankly, I grew up spoiled by the era my parents lived in---it was easier for people to make it in 1960 than it is today. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: I fully understand the dilemma. What I don't agree with is your solution. You seem to want to put the most pressure on the middle rather than where it belongs---on the top. There are people willing to do your job for less and there are employers willing to exchange you for them. But if the working class wages were higher, there would be less incentive for both of them.Say you had a town with 100 people. 70 of the people were poor. 25% were middle. 5% were at the top. The top 5% owned/controlled 80% of the towns wealth. The middle 25% controlled 15% and the bottom 70 split the remaining 5%. In my mind, you would advocate pressure more on the 15% to share their wealth before even addressing the 5% with the lions share. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Let's look at our American dream...now more like an evolving nightmare:
I'm not sure what Trump has done except lower tax rates on the wealthy and increase global warming through domestic fossil fuel production. The world is ever-changing and ever-growing. Now that more and more countries are coming up, there are no shills for the carny barkers of capitalism to exploit...except their own middle class. And you still want the middle to pay taxes and give our two mites to the poor. Sustainable? Perhaps in a liberal kum ba yah sense. But hardly preferable. And note one thing on the graph above: The latest climb started with 9-11-2001 and has not reversed course since. Trump appears to want to continue to fuel the military-industrial complex and screw the debt. But I worry. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
OK jar, what can be done? The evidence clearly shows the following:
1) Rising Public Debt 2) Extensive Global Warming 3) Continued Overpopulation. And here we have ringo claiming that Jesus wants our last two mites. I suppose if I hold one back i will get struck dead like Ananias. The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Trump has removed the prohibitions on dumping pollutants into our streams and marshes, removed the ability of States to mandate higher fuel economy, removed access to health care for many of our poor, removed air quality standards, removed the emphasis on moving to more energy-efficient lighting and is trying to remove the requirement for toilets to waste less water. This means that the Republicans lie when they claim global warming is a hox. They know damn well that if we drive this car until the wheels fall off many will die. they don't care. They want to escape the wrath with their heirs and the rest of the world be damned. And they don't want any government telling them what to do...since now one of them Trump--has the guts and chutzpah to boldly trash the planet.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott
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