Israelites match Iran burials (50% DNA from specific time) during the time of Abraham

There has been an amazing discovery and it would be even more dramatic if the DNA clock could be more specific. I suppose the evidence is that about half of the DNA from ancient Israel DNA is from folks who first arrived (or were already close by?) during the Neo/Meso Lithic period of about 10,000 years ago BUT the other 50% is from Iran and it seems to be from the time of Abraham (though it could have been something of a slow trickle over thousands of years I suppose - but no later than 3500 years ago).The first article I found was this one.Living Descendants of Biblical Canaanites Identified Via DNAThe ancient Iranian burials (Elamite or Indo Aryan? I don't know for sure as I just found this issue) were matched to burials from multiple time periods in a geographic area fundamentalists would consider to be Greater Israel (or Solomon's Israel) plus the current population.I need help in sorting out the scientific evidence but the journal article from July 27 is very much relevant to everything about origins.

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Continuity and Admixture in the Last Five Millennia of Levantine History from Ancient Canaanite and Present-Day Lebanese Genome Sequence

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http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30276-8

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( I decided to do a google search on archaeological discoveries after a great 6 hour conversation last night with an American (he had Palestinian Sunni parents but isn't a believer in Islam at all) about which region had the original ideas that made it into most religions. He started to use his phone to read sites on Zoroastrianism and he was impressed with what he saw. He seems to consider Iran the breadbasket of modern religious views even more so than me - though I was often arguing that many Israelite ideas might have predated certain LATE Zoroastrian texts that he was reading. He started by saying that Islam was just a copy of the Jewish and Christian religion, but now considers the ideas to have come from the east )I found a ton of articles before finding the original source.Here is the second I read

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Ancient DNA reveals fate of the mysterious Canaanites

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By Lizzie WadeJul. 27, 2017 , 12:00 PM

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When the pharaohs ruled Egypt and the ancient Greeks built their first cities, a mysterious people called the Canaanites dominated the Near East. Around 4000 years ago, they built cities across the Levant, which includes present-day Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, and part of Syria. Yet the Canaanites left no surviving written records, leaving researchers to piece together their history from secondhand sources.

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One of those sources is the Bible’s Old Testament, which suggests a grisly end for many Canaanites: After the Israelites’ exodus from Egypt, God ordered them to destroy Canaan and its people (though other passages suggest that some Canaanites may have survived). But did that really happen? Archaeological data suggests that Canaanite cities were never destroyed or abandoned. Now, ancient DNA recovered from five Canaanite skeletons suggests that these people survived to contribute their genes to millions of people living today.

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The new samples come from Sidon, a coastal city in Lebanon. Marc Haber, a geneticist at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, U.K., extracted enough DNA from the ancient skeletons to sequence the whole genomes of five Canaanite individuals, all around 3700 years old.

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Haber’s first mission was to figure out who the Canaanites were, genetically speaking. Ancient Greek sources suggested they had migrated to the Levant from the East. To test that, Haber and colleagues compared the Canaanite genomes to those of other ancient populations in Eurasia. It turned out the Greeks were half right: About 50% of the Canaanites’ genes came from local farmers who settled the Levant about 10,000 years ago. But the other half was linked to an earlier population identified from skeletons found in Iran, the team reports today in The American Journal of Human Genetics. The researchers estimate these Eastern migrants arrived in the Levant and started mixing with locals around 5000 years ago.

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This finding fits with other recent studies of the Levant. Iosif Lazaridis, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, saw the same mixture of eastern and local ancestry in the genomes of ancient skeletons from Jordan. It’s nice to see that what we observed wasn’t a fluke of our particular site, but was part of this broader Canaanite population, Lazaridis says.

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Now that Haber had confirmed who the Canaanites were, he set out to find out what happened to them. He compared their genomes to those of 99 living Lebanese people and hundreds of others in genetic databases. Haber found that the present-day Lebanese population is largely descended from the ancient Canaanites, inheriting more than 90% of their genes from this ancient source. The other 7% may have come from migrants from Central Europe who moved to the Levant around 3000 years ago.

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So does the new study show that there was no war between the Israelites and the Canaanites? Not necessarily, says Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute geneticist Chris Tyler-Smith, who worked with Haber. Genes don’t always track conflict. You can have genetically similar or indistinguishable populations that are culturally very different and don’t get on with one another at all, Tyler-Smith says. This might have been the case with the Israelites and the Canaanitessimilar genes, but sworn enemies.

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If those populations conquer each other, it probably wouldn’t leave traces that we could easily pick up [with ancient DNA], agrees Johannes Krause, a geneticist at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena, Germany, who wasn’t involved in the current work. Perhaps there was a Biblical war that ancient DNA simply cannot see.

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Science | AAAS

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The 3000 BCE date of arrival could be as late as 1500 BCE.

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This Canaanite-related ancestry derived from mixture between local Neolithic populations and eastern migrants genetically related to Chalcolithic Iranians. We estimate, using linkage-disequilibrium decay patterns, that admixture occurred 6,600—3,550 years ago, coinciding with recorded massive population movements in Mesopotamia during the mid-Holocene. We show that present-day Lebanese derive most of their ancestry from a Canaanite-related population, which therefore implies substantial genetic continuity in the Levant since at least the Bronze Age. In addition, we find Eurasian ancestry in the Lebanese not present in Bronze Age or earlier Levantines. We estimate that this Eurasian ancestry arrived in the Levant around 3,750—2,170 years ago during a period of successive conquests by distant populations.

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http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30276-8

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The range is from 4600 BCE to 1550 BCE for an Iranian Abraham to have migrated with the waves. (I consider the latest possible dates to be the most likely considering the Hurrian influx from that time. )The 1750 BCE to 170 BCE migrations are secondary.There is a circa 1350 BCE treaty between the Hittites and a people with Indo-Aryan gods (what we would now call Hindu gods). These people made up a ruling class in Egypt (they brought the horse to Egypt as they were among the Hyksos and other Canaanites). The Jerusalem that David took was ruled by these people. These people have names all over the Egyptian and Palestinian texts from the 500+ year period before the time of the Israelite monarchy.

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Mitanni-Aryan - Wikipedia

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Mitanni - Wikipedia

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Some theonyms, proper names and other terminology of the Mitanni are considered to form (part of) an Indo-Aryan superstrate, suggesting that an Indo-Aryan elite imposed itself over the Hurrian population in the course of the Indo-Aryan expansion. In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni (between Suppiluliuma and ...
‎Attested words and ... ‎Names of people ‎Names of gods ‎Horse training

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Mitanni - Wikipedia

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Mitanni - Wikipedia

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Mitanni also called Hanigalbat in Assyrian or Naharin in Egyptian texts, was a Hurrian-speaking state in northern Syria and southeast Anatolia from c. 1500—1300 BC. Mitanni came to be a regional power after the Hittite destruction of Amorite ... Hittite annals mention a people called Hurri (Ḫu-ur-ri), located in northeastern ...
‎Name ‎People ‎History ‎Indo-Aryan superstrate

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Suppiluliuma (Hittite) -Shattiwaza (Mitanni) Treaty - Zoroastrian Heritage

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http://www.heritageinstitute.com/...ma_shattiwaza_treaty.htm

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A Obv. 1-16: When My Majesty, Suppiluliuma, Great King, Hero, King of Hatti, Beloved of the Storm God, and Artatama, king of the land of Hurri, made a treaty ...

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Mitanni and Kurdistan - Zoroastrian Heritage

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Mitanni and Kurdistan

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The Hittites used the Hurrian language extensively in their inscriptions. ... In the treaty, the Hittite King Suppiluliuma agreed to assist Shattiwaza gain the Mitanni ...
‎Location ‎Wassukanni / Washukanni ... ‎Mitanni Dynasty ‎Arta

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Mitanni - Ancient History Encyclopedia

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Mitanni - World History Encyclopedia

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To the east the Mitanni had good relations with the Hurrian-speaking Kassites whose ... Later Egyptian dynasties entered into pacts and treaties with Mitanni and the ... Egypt backed Tushratta in this conflict while the Hittite king Suppiluliuma I ...

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Kingdom of Mitanni aristocracy shows Indo-Aryan roots

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cof.quantumfuturegroup.org/events/5396

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Jan 17, 2016 - However, with the ascent of the Hittite empire, Mitanni and Egypt made an ... Their sphere of influence is shown in Hurrian place names, personal .... In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni, the deities Mitra, Varuna, ...

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Ancient Indians in Mitanni. Excerpts from Suppiluliuma (Hittite ...

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bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2017/06/ancient-indians-in-mitanni-excerpts.html

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Jul 1, 2017 - Suppiluliuma (Hittite) -Shattiwaza (Mitanni) Treaty Excerpts ... king of the land of Hurri, made a treaty with one another, at that time, Tushratta, ...

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Were the Aryan who ruled the Mitanni the same as those of India ...

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Eupedia : Ecology, Maps, Statistics, Travel, History, Genetics, Linguistics & Psychology ... Population Genetics DNA Testing & General Genetics

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Jan 19, 2011 - 68 posts - ‎18 authors
I think that the Mitanni may have also had a Hurrian component. ... In a treaty between the Hittites (Hittites - Wikipedia) and the ...

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Journal of Indo-European Studies. 2010. About the Mitanni Aryan gods.

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Academia.edu...

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The Mitanni Aryan deities are listed twice: in the Mitanni-atti treaty (KBo I 3) and .... which seems quite extra-ordinary among Hittite and Hurrian scribes or ruling ...

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Were the Mitanni Indo-Aryan or West Irano-Aryans - History Forum ...

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All Empires: Online History Community ... Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran

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Mar 22, 2013 - 20 posts - ‎7 authors
For starters we have a treaty between the Mitanni and the Hittites which ... the majority of Mitanni deities were decidedly Hurrian and Semitic, ...

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Kingdom of Mitanni aristocracy shows Indo-Aryan roots Bharatkalyan97: Ancient Indians in Mitanni. Excerpts from Suppiluliuma (Hittite)-Shattiwaza (Mitanni) treaty, 15th cent. BCE The above links have timelines and maps.Here is the google linkmitanni hittite hurrian treaty - Google SearchThis should be seen as a smoking gun for the origin of the Amorite population which became what we know as West Semitic (ie Abraham and the Israelites). It should tell us that the Semitic language was taken over by Indo Iranians in Mesopotamia. Perhaps it happened over a period from 3000 BCE till 2000 BCE and the westward migrations happened during that time and after.Were the Sumerians part of this Elamite group?How did the Greek mythology get influenced?Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added "[url=" code to two links to make them clickable. Before, the links looked proper but for some reason the clickable portion of the link was a truncated version of the entire link.]" code to two links to make them clickable. Before, the links looked proper but for some reason the clickable portion of the link was a truncated version of the entire link.

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So, the Israelites were half Persian?

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The Hindu think it is an article of faith that the Punjab (modern Pakistan) civilizations of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro from 3000 BCE were Indo Aryan peoples.Historians place the arrival around (though it depends on the exact region of Iran - north or south. In India, the northern Afghanistan region is relevant I think)1500 BCE.The arrival of Persians would be around 1500 BCE - according to historians.The area of southern Iran called Elam (in the New Testament Acts 2 text, Elam is the name of ancient Susa though I think Elamites were long gone as an axisting language group and perhaps even a people) is where there was a Semitic/Sumerian related culture though the inscriptions can't be read.My idea has to do with a (very?) small group of Indo Aryan speaking people arriving in Iran and mixing with the darker skinned natives (Elamites in Iran and Harappan folk in India or modern day Pakistan), but the exact language I can't claim to know, especially if the earlier DNA clock dates are accepted.I independently reached the conclusion that the Sumerians, Elamites and Harappans of 5000 years ago were the same people. (not that it was much more than a guess about an issue that I lack the bulk of needed research on)I have read good academic works (but lost the title) that reached the same conclusion.Here is a google link that might help those with interest.essential hindu history amzaon rosen elamite dravisian harappan - Google SearchI'm not sure how mixed the people would have been and exactly how the linguistic lines related to original inhabitants (in religion and race).Here is the standard view of arrival.

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RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD
FOURTH EDITION
Lewis M. Hopfe
1988
p.84

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The Aryans are believed to have been the people who first tamed horses on a wide scale and used them to pull war chariots. They were related to the Hyksos people who INVADED Egypt in the second millennium B.C. and ruled it for two hundred years. ...The Aryans who did not migrate into India became the founders of Zoroastrianism. There are many similarities between the religion revealed in the Indian Vedic literature and the Gathas of Zoroastrianism. These same people later founded the Persian Empire, which ruled the Middle East from the sixth to the fourth centuries B.C.
....
During the period between 1750 and 1200 B.C. the Aryans came in migratory waves into the Indus valley

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Caps added by me in the "invaded" word.The ethnic arrival issue is controversial. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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Much of the reporting around this find seems to be mistaken. Sidon wasn't conquered by the Israelites, so we'd expect the people there to be Canaanite (Phoenician). The modern population might be expected to have mixes from a lot of sources, but it's not really that surprising to see that the genes of the Iron Age inhabitants are still dominant.

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I was shocked to see so little change from the last 3700 years (the Iron Age started after 1200 BCE or 3200 years ago). Disturbed actually.And the research includes sites from (what is now) modern day Israel ( Palestine) and Jordan, with DNA (I need to re read it though as I haven't been on the computer since I quickly posted the thread).

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And there's no real connection to the - possibly mythical - Abraham either. Abraham was supposed to have come from Ur in Mesopotamia (The South of modern Iraq) and should have been of Semitic ethnicity.

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So, slightly interesting but it's being stretched beyond anything it really connects to.

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The Babylonians were actually West Semites who took the East Semitic Akkadian language.
Hammurabi was actually from the same ethnicity as the later Hebrews (Amorite or West Semitic). And he knew itThe West Semitic peoples seem to have conquered the Sumerian 3rd Dynasty of Ur.The Amorites were already present in certain numbers.There were a ton of East Semites already there as the Sargon The Great Empire was East Semitic.There were already Semites (even west) plus Indo Aryan peoples in the 3rd millennium.Why couldn't Indo Aryans have mixed in with Amorites 4000 years ago in Mesopotamia?We know that the Philistines (in Palestine) were no longer eating pork after 1000 BCE plus they practiced circumcision as well 200 years after their arrival. Their language was Canaanite by then too.That is one Indo Aryan group that essentially became Canaanite (though the actual Aegean elite might have always been a small component of the overall population even in 'Philistine" cities) though they were aware of the European origins.(EDIT the Hurrians arrived before 1500 BCE according to archaeological discoveries in Palestinian sites)The Hurrians that came to Palestine and Egypt became Semitic speakers.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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And there's no real connection to the - possibly mythical - Abraham either. Abraham was supposed to have come from Ur in Mesopotamia (The South of modern Iraq) and should have been of Semitic ethnicity.

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Here is my point earlier.The direct successors to the Sumerians of Ur were Semites. West Semitic peoples (called the Amuru or Amorites) who were already slowly trickling in but adopting a different language - Akkadian and Sumerian.A large group of people can migrate in and take a different language.Look at France from around the 4th 5th century.Like the Franks taking Latin but keeping their ethnic heritage otherwise.hammurabi amorite west semitic - Google Search

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Amorite - Ancient History Encyclopedia

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Amorite - World History Encyclopedia

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The Amorites were a Semitic people who seem to have emerged from western ... best known for their kingdom of Babylonia under the Amorite king Hammurabi.

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From the Tower of Babel to the Laws of Hammurabi - Springer Link

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link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/978-3-319-01937-6_7.pdf

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7 From the Tower of Babel to the Laws of Hammurabi gives an ..... for another society of western Semites known as Amorites, or in Sumerian Mar-to or Mura-tu ...

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Babylon | Western Civilization

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Babylon | Western Civilization

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Describe key characteristics of the Babylonian Empire under Hammurabi ... Conflicts between the Amorites (Western Semitic nomads) and the Assyrians ...

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Amorites - Wikipedia

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Amorites - Wikipedia

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The Amorites were an ancient Semitic-speaking people from Syria who also occupied large ... In the earliest Sumerian texts, all western lands beyond the Euphrates, including the ... 2050 — 1750 BC) became the most powerful entity in Mesopotamia immediately preceding the rise of the Amorite king Hammurabi of Babylon.

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Gods and Goddesses - British Museum Mesopotamia

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Gods and Goddesses

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Amorites. Semitic-speaking nomadic pastoralists. By 2000 B.C. these tribes ... the most famous is that of Babylon with its sixth king Hammurabi (1792-1750 B.C.). ... People who entered western Iran in the 2nd millennium B.C. The Medes, allied ...

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Peoples of the Bible: The legend of the Amorites - Archaeology ...

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http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-1.769235?v...

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Feb 6, 2017 - Amorites: A people descended from Emer, the fourth son of Canaan, according ... Nor can we be sure that the increasing prominence of West Semitic names is .... Hammurabi's Code is essentially a collection of decisions and ...

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Amorites - New World Encyclopedia

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Amorites - New World Encyclopedia

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The bottom portion of the stele contains the text of the Code of Hammurabi. ... refers to a Semitic people who first occupied the country west of the Euphrates from ...

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The Fierce Amorites and the First King of the Babylonian Empire ...

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http://www.ancient-origins.net/...g-babylonian-empire-003269

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Jun 21, 2015 - Their most noted king, Hammurabi, was the first king of the Babylon Empire. ... Since their language shows northwest Semitic forms, words and .... located on the west bank of the Euphrates River in what was once northern.

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Amurru, the Home of the Northern Semites by A. T. Clay - Jstor

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JSTOR: Access Check
was an amalgamation of what was once Amorite, or west Semitic, and the. Sumerian ... an early Babylonian dynasty-some two centuries before Hammurabi-.

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King Hammurabi of Babylon: A Biography

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isbn:047069534X - Google Search

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Marc Van De Mieroop - 2008 - History
Abi-eshuh: the second successor of Hammurabi as king of Babylon, who ruled from 1711 to ... Amorite: a west Semitic language spoken by many inhabitants of ...

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I need to look harder but I seem to recall that there was an increase in population after 2000 BCE.israel finkelstein middle bronze age urbanisation population palestine - Google SearchThe population dropped severely after the Early Bronze Age ended then increased during the Middle Bronze Age.That might account for the 50% Iranian blood mix.

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And you miss the point about Abraham. The point is not that Semites couldn't come from the region of Ur, just that they would not show Iranian ancestry.

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But the Hurrians and Kassites had Iranian names in (perhaps) a small and elite(?) number of individuals.Who were the Kassites?

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The Kassites (/ˈksaɪts/) were a people of the ancient Near East, who controlled Babylonia after the fall of the Old Babylonian Empire c. 1531 BC and until c. 1155 BC (short chronology). The endonym of the Kassites was probably Galzu,[1] although they have also been referred to by the names Kau, Kassi, Kasi or Kashi.

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They gained control of Babylonia after the Hittite sack of the city in 1595 BC (i.e. 1531 BC per the short chronology), and established a dynasty based in Dur-Kurigalzu.[2][3] The Kassites were members of a small military aristocracy but were efficient rulers and not locally unpopular,[4] and their 500-year reign laid an essential groundwork for the development of subsequent Babylonian culture.[3] The horse, which the Kassites worshipped, first came into use in Babylonia at this time.[4]

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The Kassite language has not been classified.[3] What is known is that their language was not related to either the Indo-European language group, nor to Semitic or other Afro-Asiatic languages, and is most likely to have been a language isolate (a stand-alone language unrelated to any other), although some linguists have proposed a link to the Hurro-Urartian languages of Asia Minor.[5] However, several Kassite leaders bore Indo-Aryan names, and they might have had an Indo-Aryan elite similar to the Mitanni, who ruled over the Hurro-Urartian-speaking Hurrians of Asia Minor. Their leaders frequently cited the names of Vedic deities in their official inscriptions, negotiations, treaties abs communication.[6][7]
Kassites - Wikipedia

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kassites - Google SearchThey defeated the Babylonian Amorite (remember, they are same ethnicity as Jewish folk) dynasty around 1600 BCE.They then ruled Babylon for about 400 years. They took over just after the flood epic of Atrahasis was written during Amizaduka's (spelling?) reign. They also returned the statue of Marduk (which was dragged off by the Hittites earlier).kassite statue marduk hittite - Google SearchAtrahasis was the first flood story and it was written c. 1600 (if one knows exactly when AmiSaduka reigned, then the date is precisely known). It was man being created from the dirt and then the flood is attached to the creation story. Genesis 2 through 9 is the parallel.Marduk was the God that Enuma Elish was dedicated to and it is essentially an early version of Genesis 1.The Kassites thus have connections to the 2 creation stories of Genesis and the flood.The Hurrians and/or the Hittites have commonly been seen as the carriers of these stories to Palestine.Remember the 1400 BCE Hittite/Hurrian treaty that mentions Mithra and Varuna?The "Jebusite" ruler of Jerusalem (see 2 Samuel 24) had a Hurrian name that are very similar to Varuna (and for that matter, the prince Arjuna of the much later Bhagavad Gita)Take a look at Varuna

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The Oxford Dictionary of World Religions
John Bowker (ed.)
Oxford University Press (1997)

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p. 1016
Varuna. Early Hindu god, prominent in the Vedic period. Possibly connected with vr ('veil'), he was associated with the all-covering sky, but in the *Vedas his activities resemble those of *Indra and *Agni. As a ruler of the *Adityas, he maintains celestial order, especially the seasons, sunrise and sunset, rainfall (Rg Veda 6. 48. 14,10. 99. 10). As Lord of *rta, he watches over humanity with a thousand eyes and he shares responsibility for sacrificial order. He is also connected with the emergent and related concept of *dharma. He remains particularly connected with oceans and rivers, though in later mythology Indra has taken precedence over him and he has been reduced to the god of death.

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Then Mithra

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p.648
Mitra. Hindu Vedic god, one of the *Adityas, 'he who awakens people at daybreak and prompts them to work' (Rg. Veda 3. 59. I). Because mitra means 'friend', Mitra is usually associated with another god in partnership, especially *Varuna. Mitra-Varuna are handsome, shining, and young. They are appointed kings by the *devas, and *Soma is pressed for them. Since Mitra rules over day, Varuna rules over night.

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J. Gonda, Mitra (1972)

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Look at Varuna in the Rig Veda.

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1. I AM the royal Ruler, mine is empire, as mine who sway all life are all Immortals.
Varuna's will the Gods obey and follow. I am the King of men's most lofty cover.
2. I am King Varuna. To me were given these first existinghigh celestial powers.
Varuna's will the Gods obey and follow. I am the King of men's most lofty cover.
3. I Varuna am Indra: in their greatness, these the two wide deep fairly-fashioned regions,
These the two world-halves have I, even as Tvastar knowing all beings, joined and held together.
4. I made to flow the moisture-shedding waters, and set the heaven firm in the scat of Order.
By Law the Son of Aditi, Law Observer, hath spread abroad the world in threefold measure.
5. Heroes with noble horses, fain for battle, selected warriors, call on me in combat.
I Indra Maghavan, excite the conflict; I stir the dust, Lord of surpassing vigour.
6. All this I did. The Gods' own conquering power never impedeth me whom none opposeth.
When lauds and Soma juice have made me joyful, both the unbounded regions are affrighted.
7. All beings know these deeds of thine thou tellest this unto Varuna, thou great Disposer!
Thou art renowned as having slain the Vrtras. Thou madest flow the floods that were obstructed.
8. Our fathers then were these, the Seven his, what time the son of Durgaha was captive.
For her they gained by sacrifice Trasadasyu, a demi-god, like Indra, conquering foemen.
9. The spouse of Purukutsa gave oblations to you, O Indra-Varuna, with homage.
Then unto her ye gave King Trasadasyu, the demi-god, the slayer of the foeman.
10. May we, possessing much, delight in riches, Gods in oblations and the kine in pasture;
And that Milch-cow who ahrinks not from the milking, O Indra-Varuna, give to us daily.

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The Rig Veda/Mandala 4/Hymn 42 - Wikisource, the free online library

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rig veda 4, 42 - Google SearchThe vrtras are what?A dragon slaying mythological story!(like Genesis 1 and Job 26)
(like the Enuma Elish Marduk story)

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In the early Vedic religion, Vritra (Sanskrit: वृत्र, vṛtra, lit. 'enveloper') is a serpent or dragon, the personification of drought and adversary of Indra. In Hinduism, Vritra is identified as an Asura. Vritra was also known in the Vedas as Ahi (Sanskrit: अहि ahi, lit. 'snake'). He appears as a dragon blocking the course of the rivers and is heroically slain by Indra.[1]
....
Vedic version[edit]

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According to the Rig Veda, Vritra kept the waters of the world captive until he was killed by Indra, who destroyed all the 99 fortresses of Vritra (although the fortresses are sometimes attributed to Sambara) before liberating the imprisoned rivers. The combat began soon after Indra was born, and he had drunk a large volume of Soma at Tvashtri's house to empower him before facing Vritra. Tvashtri fashioned the thunderbolt (Vajrayudha) for Indra, and Vishnu, when asked to do so by Indra, made space for the battle by taking the three great strides for which Vishnu became famous.[2][3] Vritra broke Indra's two jaws during the battle, but was then thrown down by Indra and, in falling, crushed the fortresses that had already been shattered.[4][5] For this feat, Indra became known as Vritrahan "slayer of Vritra" and also as "slayer of the first-born of dragons". Vritra's mother, Danu (who was also the mother of the Danava race of Asuras), was then attacked and defeated by Indra with his thunderbolt.[4][5] In one of the versions of the story, three Devas — Varuna, Soma and Agni — were coaxed by Indra into aiding him in the fight against Vritra whereas before they had been on the side of Vritra (whom they called "Father").[6][7]

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In one verse of a Rig-Vedic hymn eulogising Sarasvati, she is portrayed as the one who slayed Vritra. Mention of this occurs nowhere else.[8][9]

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Hymn 18 of Mandala IV provides the most elaborate account of the Vedic version. The verses describe the events and circumstances leading up to the battle between Indra and Vritra, the battle itself, and the outcome of the battle.
Vritra - Wikipedia

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vrtras - Google SearchVaruna was known is the Middle East and it might explain some of the sacrificial issues that centered around the end of the flood. The early Christian communities were well aware of the sacrificing (not to mention eating) of animals being related to the waters being tamed (though the primeval dragon element was lost) and the Noachian flood covenant.The flood stories all have the God's being fed sacrifices.The Genesis 1 details seem to be relevant to the attributes of these Gods that were known in the region.Why couldn't people be mixed in with each other?Hurrian parallels have long been recognized as being related to the Patriarchal stories in Genesis.Once has to wonder if the stories of Abraham reflect a mixed Indo Iranian Hurrian and Semitic heritage.

Well, what did you mean when you said that they would not show Iranian ancestry?

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And you miss the point about Abraham. The point is not that Semites couldn't come from the region of Ur, just that they would not show Iranian ancestry.

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How does that square with the evidence of the Sidonian burials from 1700 BCE.The Sidonians lived among the Israelites.

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Joshua 13
New International Version (NIV)

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Land Still to Be Taken

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13 When Joshua had grown old, the Lord said to him, You are now very old, and there are still very large areas of land to be taken over.

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2 This is the land that remains: all the regions of the Philistines and Geshurites, 3 from the Shihor River on the east of Egypt to the territory of Ekron on the north, all of it counted as Canaanite though held by the five Philistine rulers in Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Gath and Ekron; the territory of the Avvites 4 on the south; all the land of the Canaanites, from Arah of the Sidonians as far as Aphek and the border of the Amorites; 5 the area of Byblos; and all Lebanon to the east, from Baal Gad below Mount Hermon to Lebo Hamath.

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6 As for all the inhabitants of the mountain regions from Lebanon to Misrephoth Maim, that is, all the Sidonians, I myself will drive them out before the Israelites. Be sure to allocate this land to Israel for an inheritance, as I have instructed you, 7 and divide it as an inheritance among the nine tribes and half of the tribe of Manasseh.

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1 Kings 5:4-6
New International Version (NIV)

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4 But now the Lord my God has given me rest on every side, and there is no adversary or disaster. 5 I intend, therefore, to build a temple for the Name of the Lord my God, as the Lord told my father David, when he said, ‘Your son whom I will put on the throne in your place will build the temple for my Name.’

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6 So give orders that cedars of Lebanon be cut for me. My men will work with yours, and I will pay you for your men whatever wages you set. You know that we have no one so skilled in felling timber as the Sidonians.

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Judges 1:27-35
New International Version (NIV)

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27 But Manasseh did not drive out the people of Beth Shan or Taanach or Dor or Ibleam or Megiddo and their surrounding settlements, for the Canaanites were determined to live in that land. 28 When Israel became strong, they pressed the Canaanites into forced labor but never drove them out completely. 29 Nor did Ephraim drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, but the Canaanites continued to live there among them. 30 Neither did Zebulun drive out the Canaanites living in Kitron or Nahalol, so these Canaanites lived among them, but Zebulun did subject them to forced labor. 31 Nor did Asher drive out those living in Akko or Sidon or Ahlab or Akzib or Helbah or Aphek or Rehob. 32 The Asherites lived among the Canaanite inhabitants of the land because they did not drive them out. 33 Neither did Naphtali drive out those living in Beth Shemesh or Beth Anath; but the Naphtalites too lived among the Canaanite inhabitants of the land, and those living in Beth Shemesh and Beth Anath became forced laborers for them. 34 The Amorites confined the Danites to the hill country, not allowing them to come down into the plain. 35 And the Amorites were determined also to hold out in Mount Heres, Aijalon and Shaalbim, but when the power of the tribes of Joseph increased, they too were pressed into forced labor.

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I think it is obvious that the Sidonians lived among the Israelites.And they would have mixed in (at all times and especially in the earlier "patriarchal period")Ahab had a wife from the Jezreel valley. Saul had two sons with Canaanite names. Saul was the first ever recorded king of Israel. Ahab was a king from a few centuries later.

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saul son baal name - Google Search

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Why did Saul name two of his sons Eshbaal and Merib-baal ...

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Forbidden - Stack Exchange-...

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May 25, 2015 - A large minority of them are compounded from the divine name Baal, ... According to the Bible, Saul had a son called Eshbaal ('man of Baal').

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Ish-bosheth - Wikipedia

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Ish-bosheth - Wikipedia

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According to the Hebrew Bible, Ish-bosheth also called Eshbaal Ashbaal or Ishbaal, was one of ... The names Ish-bosheth and Eshbaal have ambiguous meanings in the original Hebrew. In Hebrew ... Ish-bosheth Saul's son was forty years old when he began to reign over Israel, and he reigned two years." (2 Samuel ...
‎The names ‎The name Ish-bosheth ‎The other name: Eshba'al ‎Archaeology

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Mephibosheth - Wikipedia

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Mephibosheth - Wikipedia

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According to the Books of Samuel of the Tanakh, Mephibosheth (Bib Heb: מְפִיבֹשֶׁת, Trans: Mefivoshet, Məp̄ḇṓeṯ ; meaning "from the mouth of shame" or "from the mouth of god Bashtu") or Merib-baal (Bib Heb: מְרִיב־בַּעַל, Trans: Meriv-Ba'al, Mərḇ-Bʻal) was the son of Jonathan, grandson of King Saul and father of ...

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Baal - Wikipedia

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Baal - Wikipedia

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Baal properly Baʿal was a title and honorific meaning "lord" in the Northwest Semitic ... Baʿal was also used as a proper name by the third millennium BCE, when he appears in a list of deities at Abu Salabikh. .... "The Lord Strives"), Saul's son Eshbaʿal ("The Lord is Great"), and David's son Beeliada ("The Lord Knows").

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Saul - Wikipedia

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Saul - Wikipedia

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Saul according to the Hebrew Bible, was the first king of the Kingdom of Israel and Judah. ... Saul also had a concubine named Rizpah, daughter of Aiah, who bore him two ... (2 Samuel 21:14) Three of Saul's sons — Jonathan, and Abinadab, and ...... Abraha Bal'am/Balaam Barṣīṣā Nebuchadnezzar II Nimrod Potiphar ...

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Topical Bible: Eshbaal - Bible Hub

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biblehub.com/topical/e/eshbaal.htm

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Eshbaal. 1 Chronicles 8:33, the fourth son of Saul, generally called Ishbosheth. The word BAAL, the name of an idol, was not pronounced by scrupulous Jews; ...

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Why Is the Son of Saul's Name Different in 2 Samuel Versus 1 ...

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Why Is the Son of Saul’s Name Different in 2 Samuel Versus 1 Chronicles? | Tough Questions Answered...

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Oct 2, 2015 - Why Is the Son of Saul's Name Different in 2 Samuel Versus 1 ... Similarly, a son of Saul is called Esh-Baal in 1 Chronicles 8: 33 and 9: 39 but ...

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What's in a name?: 1Chr 8:33 | Random Musings

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What’s in a name?: 1Chr 8:33 | Random Musings

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Aug 16, 2016 - King Saul had four sons (and two daughters), we're told in 1Chr 8:33. ... The name Ishbaal (אֶשְׁבָּֽעַל) comes from two Hebrew root words ...

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Merib-baal | The amazing name Merib-baal: meaning and etymology

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Merib-baal | The amazing name Merib-baal: meaning and etymology

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May 5, 2014 - The name Merib-baal in the Bible. There's only one ... He is a son of Jonathan, the son of king Saul of Israel (1 Chronicles 8:34 and 9:40).

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Eshbaal | The amazing name Eshbaal: meaning and etymology

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Eshbaal | The amazing name Eshbaal: meaning and etymology

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May 5, 2014 - Eshbaal is one of the sons of Saul (1 Chronicles 8:33), and probably the same as Ish-bosheth (איש־בשת), who succeeded Saul as king of Israel, ...

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Baal had a consort. Anat. There was an Israelite Judge who was the son of Anat.

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Anat - Wikipedia

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Anat - Wikipedia

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Anat or Anath is a major northwest Semitic goddess. Contents. . 1 In Ugarit; 2 In Egypt ... Nowhere in these texts is 'Anat explicitly Ba'al Hadad's consort. .... in Canaanite tradition as Anath and Astarte, particularly in the poetry of Ugarit.

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Consort‎: ‎Ba‘al Hadad brother and possibly lover

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Symbol‎: ‎Atef Crown

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Anat, the Canaanite Goddess of War and Sacrifice - Thalia Took

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Anat, the Canaanite Goddess of War and Sacrifice

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Anat, the Canaanite Virgin Warrior Goddess from the World Goddess Oracle by ... the Morrigan, and, though She is not usually considered the consort of Ba'al, ...

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Anat - New World Encyclopedia

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Anat - New World Encyclopedia

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Nov 17, 2016 - She was the first consort of Anu, and the pair were the parents of the ... John Day, Yahweh & the Gods & Goddesses of Canaan (Sheffield ...
‎'Anat in Ugarit ‎'Anat in Egypt ‎'Anat in Israel

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Anat, Mother of Gods - Tour Egypt

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Anat, Mother of Gods

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Anat (Anatu, Anath, Anata, Anta, Antu, Anant, Anit, Antit) Mother of Gods. ... the Goddess Anat was known among the Canaanites in prehistoric times, and was ... she is the daughter of El, sister (though perhaps not literally) and consort of Baal.

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Anat - Crystalinks

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Anat

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She is associated with Reshpu, (Canaanite: Resheph) in some texts and sometimes ... But nowhere in these texts is Anat explicitly Ba'al/Hadad's consort.

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Anat

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- -

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In Canaan Anat had been the consort of the storm god Baal, in Egypt she was also matched with Seth, Baal's Egyptian equivalent. In the Contendings of Horus ...

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Jealous Gods and Chosen People: The Mythology of the Middle East

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isbn:0195147898 - Google Search

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David Leeming - 2004 - ‎History
And although El was for some Canaanites the father of creation, his consort, Athirat, was the creatress of the gods (Fulco, Anat). Something like this ...

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Bronze Age Religion - Canaan & Ancient Israel @ University of ...

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https://www.penn.museum/sites/Canaan/CanaaniteReligion.html

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Canaanite deities were organized in a pantheon: El the creator, his consort Athirat (Asherah), the storm god Ba'al, and his sister Anat, a goddess of hunting and ...

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Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan

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isbn:0567537838 - Google Search

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John Day - 2010 - ‎Religion
that Anat is Baal's consort (similarly Astartealso widely accepted to be Baal's consort). Baal is constantly paired with Anat and Astarte in the Ugaritic texts, and ...

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anat canaaanite consort - Google Search

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As for Abraham himself, we have lots of very conservative sources who see his Shechem as a Canaanite location (before becoming "Israelite" and remember that most scholars and historians - not to mention archaeologists - see the evidence indicating an evolutionary process with Canaanites becoming Israelites NOT THROUGH AN INVASION but via an initial religious evolution and then eventually increasing numbers of Canaanite conversions to the Israelite method of worship and in essence an evolved religion). Remember in Judges the Temple in Shechem is called both el-berith and Baal-berith which means Lord of the Covenant. Joshua made a covenant at Shechem.

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Kingdom of Priests: A History of Old Testament Israel
By Eugene H. Merrill
(1988 Baker Academic)
Shechem had long been associated with the special presence of Yahweh. Abraham had built his first sltar there, Jacob had bought property there and dug a well, Joseeph was buried there, and Joshua had led the nation in covenant reaffirmation at Shechem. The central sanctuary, however, had been established at Shiloh, and so it appears that Shechem had been taken over by anti-Yahwist elements that had seized upon its hoary sanctity as justification for the establishment of a Baal cult center. The very name of Baal there, Baal-Berith (lord of covenant), probably harks back to thee ccovenant traditions of the place, beginning with Abraham and continuing through Joshua. In line with common practice, the covenant-making function of Yahweh was simply transferred to Baal so that he, not Yahweh, was viewed as the god who made Shechem a holy place. (subscript note 79)
....
(note 79 text)
This interpretation runs counter to that of most scholars, who argue the reverse, that is, that the site was originally devoted to a Canaanite cult and was aappropriated by Israel for Yahweh worship. See Martin Noth, The History of Israel, 2nd ed. (New York: Harper & Row, 1960), 98-99; G. Ernest Wright, "Deuteronomy," in The Interpreters Bible, ed. George A. Buttrick et al. (New York: Abingdon-Cokesbury, 1953), 2:326.

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Kingdom of Priests: A History of Old Testament Israel - Eugene H. Merrill - Google Books

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abraham shechem baal - Google SearchI just quoted a fundamentalist or very conservative source.Along the ultra conservative line of reasoning, consider this:The Freemason group itself has its mythological founder as a Canaanite who lived during the time of King Solomon. He was given a name that was same as the Canaanite king of Tyre.There is plenty of evidence of Canaanites and Israelites living together in the Biblical text (free of any "liberal scholarship" interpretations).But, you raised an issue of ancestry of Abraham and it might be as murky as the man itself and that assumes that there was an actual migration from Ur in Babylonia (or earlier Sumeria though the Bible uses the much later name for the region: Chaldea).The issue you raise is one of those things that depends on whether one assumes some sort of mythical racial purity among the Israelites.(nevermind that Ruth and Rahab the harlot are in the family tree of Jesus in the Gospels and don't even get me going on the Uriah the Hittite issue since it gets to the rub of the matter)Canaanites were demonstrated to have been of Iranian (or whatever) ancestry.I ask how you can say that Abraham wouldn't have such?More google for thought.

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[PDF]the social environment of the patriarchs - Tyndale House

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Error — Tyndale House...

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by MJ SELMAN - ‎1976 - ‎Cited by 12 - ‎Related articles
home specifically among the Hurrian population of approximately the same area at ... include the inheritance agreement between Abraham and. Eliezer (Gn. 15) ... held that those patriarchal customs to which parallels have been found at Nuzi ...

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BiblicalStudies.org.uk: Archaeology and the Patriarchs by Robert I ...

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BiblicalStudies.org.uk: Archaeology and the Patriarchs by Robert I Bradshaw

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by RI Bradshaw - ‎1992 - ‎Related articles
This extrabiblical data has been used in three ways to furnish parallels to ... In Genesis 23 Abraham buys the Cave of Machpelah from Ephron the Hittite as a ...

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From the Patriarchs to Moses: From Abraham to Joseph William ... - jstor

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JSTOR: Access Check

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Some two or three centuries before Abraham, the wandering Semites of North Arabia ...... parallels to Genesis 14, which we shall not discuss here since they involve too many .... thermore, the mixture of Hurrians and Northwestern Semites.

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The Message of Genesis 12-50 - Google Books Result

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isbn:0830883142 - Google Search

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Joyce G. Baldwin - 1986
J. van Seters, Abraham in History and Tradition (Yale, 1975), pp. 91-92. 7. ... 39-40. 8. J.J. Bimson, 'Archaeological Data and the Dating of the Patriarchs', EOPN, pp. ... 159), and some of the names in verses 20-30 have Hurrian parallels.

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The Bible in Its World: The Bible and Archaeology Today

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isbn:1592446183 - Google Search

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K. A. Kitchen - 2004 - ‎Religion
pelled or sold (so, Hammurabi's laws, 146), thus Abraham's unwillingness to do so ... Third, the thesis of a specially Hurrian component in the legal/social usages at Nuzi largely evaporates - and has no bearing on the patriarchs either. ... One such is the supposed Nuzi parallels for Abraham calling his wife his 'sister' (Gen.

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The Patriarchal Age: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob The BAS Library

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members.bib-arch.org/ancient-israel/0/0/1/patriarchal-age-abraham-isaac-and-jacob

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In Canaan, Abram's son Isaac is born, and Isaac, in turn, becomes the father of Jacob, ... Second, Albright, Speiser and others cited numerous parallels between ... to associate the patriarchs directly with the Hurrian kingdom of Mitanni, it was ...

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Zondervan Illustrated Bible Dictionary - Page 107 - Google Books Result

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isbn:0310492351 - Google Search

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J. D. Douglas, ‎Merrill C. Tenney - 2011 - ‎Religion
It contains remarkable parallels to the biblical account, such as a warning of the ... found in many ancient languages including Assyrian, Hittite, Hurrian, and Sumerian. The period of the patriarchs has been illuminated by the discovery in 1925 of ... on customs that existed in the very region inhabited by the family of Abraham.

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The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Isreal and ...

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isbn:0743223381 - Google Search

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Israel Finkelstein, ‎Neil Asher Silberman - 2002 - ‎Religion
Parallels like this, they argued, cannot be found in later periods in the history of the ... the customs of the Hurrians, a nonSemitic people who established the powerful ... is similar to the adoption of Eliezer by Abraham as his heir (Genesis 15:2—3). ... and the biblical material on the age of the patriarchs were understood on the ...

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Biblical History and Israel S Past: The Changing Study of the Bible ...

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isbn:0802862608 - Google Search

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Megan Bishop Moore, ‎Brad E. Kelle - 2011 - ‎History
... around the fifteenth century b.c.e. were discovered at the Hurrian site of Nuzi during excavations ... 37—50); and several other practices that seemed to parallel stories from ... reconstructions of the patriarchs and matriarchs in the mid—twentieth century, ... Albright himself, for example, envisioned Abraham as the leader of a ...

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abraham patriarchs hurrian parallels - Google Search

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Abraham bought the cave from a Hittite so he was at the very least said to have been around Indo Aryan type peoples (though admittedly the relationship was distant and perhaps they should only be described as Indo European and not Indo Aryan). And the Hittites were living among the Hurrians (an important group because they worshipped Varuna and Mithra) for sure - as Abraham and the patriarchs would have been also.On the Hittites.

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The Hittites (/ˈhɪtaɪts/) were an Ancient Anatolian people who established an empire centered on Hattusa in north-central Anatolia around 1600 BC. This empire reached its height during the mid-14th century BC under Suppiluliuma I, when it encompassed an area that included most of Anatolia as well as parts of the northern Levant and Upper Mesopotamia. Between the 15th and 13th centuries BC the Hittite Empire came into conflict with the Egyptian Empire, Middle Assyrian Empire and the empire of the Mitanni for control of the Near East. The Assyrians eventually emerged as the dominant power and annexed much of the Hittite empire, while the remainder was sacked by Phrygian newcomers to the region. After c. 1180 BC, during the Bronze Age collapse, the Hittites splintered into several independent "Neo-Hittite" city-states, some of which survived until the 8th century BC before succumbing to the Neo-Assyrian Empire.

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The Hittite language was a distinct member of the Anatolian branch of the Indo-European language family, and along with the related Luwian language, is the oldest historically attested Indo-European language.[2] They referred to their native land as Hatti. The conventional name "Hittites" is due to their initial identification with the Biblical Hittites in 19th century archaeology. Despite their use of the name Hatti for their core territory, the Hittites should be distinguished from the Hattians, an earlier people who inhabited the same region (until the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC) and spoke an unrelated language known as Hattic.[3]
....
Biblical background[edit]

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See also: Biblical Hittites
....
Sayce and other scholars also noted that Judah and the Hittites were never enemies in the Hebrew texts; in the Book of Kings, they supplied the Israelites with cedar, chariots, and horses, as well as being a friend and ally to Abraham in the Book of Genesis. Uriah (the Hittite) was a captain in King David's army and counted among one of his "mighty men" in 1 Chronicles 11.

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....
Geography[edit]
To the southeast of the Hittites lay the Hurrian empire of Mitanni. At its peak, during the reign of Mursili II, the Hittite empire stretched from Arzawa in the west to Mitanni in the east, many of the Kaskian territories to the north including Hayasa-Azzi in the far north-east, and on south into Canaan approximately as far as the southern border of Lebanon, incorporating all of these territories within its domain.
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Origins[edit]

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It is generally assumed that the Hittites came into Anatolia some time before 2000 BC. While their earlier location is disputed, it has been speculated by scholars for more than a century that the Kurgan cultures of the Pontic Steppe, in present-day Ukraine, around the Sea of Azov spoke an early Indo-European language during the third and fourth millennia BC.[13]

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The arrival of the Hittites in Anatolia in the Bronze Age was one of a superstrate imposing itself on a native culture (in this case over the pre existing Hattians and Hurrians), either by means of conquest or by gradual assimilation
....
Their movement into the region may have set off a Near East mass migration sometime around 1900 BC.[citation needed] The dominant indigenous inhabitants in central Anatolia at the time were Hurrians and Hattians who spoke non-Indo-European languages (some have argued that Hattic was a Northwest Caucasian language, but its affiliation remains uncertain), whilst the Hurrian language was a language isolate. There were also Assyrian colonies in the region during the Old Assyrian Empire (2025-1750 BC); it was from the Semitic Assyrians of Upper Mesopotamia that the Hittites adopted the cuneiform script. It took some time before the Hittites established themselves following the collapse of the Old Assyrian Empire in the mid-18th century BC, as is clear from some of the texts included here. For several centuries there were separate Hittite groups, usually centered on various cities. But then strong rulers with their center in Hattusas (modern Boazky) succeeded in bringing these together and conquering large parts of central Anatolia to establish the Hittite kingdom.[27]

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....
Early Period[edit]

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Hittite chariot, from an Egyptian relief
The early history of the Hittite kingdom is known through tablets that may first have been written in the 17th century BC, possibly in Hittite;[28] but survived only as Akkadian (the language of Assyria and Babylonia) copies made in the 14th and 13th centuries BC. These reveal a rivalry within two branches of the royal family up to the Middle Kingdom; a northern branch first based in Zalpa and secondarily Hattusa, and a southern branch based in Kussara (still not found) and the former Assyrian colony of Kanesh (modern Kultepe). These are distinguishable by their names; the northerners retained language isolate Hattian names, and the southerners adopted Indo-European Hittite and Luwian names.[29]

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Zalpa first attacked Kanesh under Uhna in 1833 BC.[30]

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One set of tablets, known collectively as the Anitta text,[31] begin by telling how Pithana the king of Kussara conquered neighbouring Nea (Kanesh).[32] However, the real subject of these tablets is Pithana's son Anitta (r. 1745 — 1720 BC),[33] who continued where his father left off and conquered several northern cities: including Hattusa, which he cursed, and also Zalpuwa (Zalpa). This was likely propaganda for the southern branch of the royal family, against the northern branch who had fixed on Hattusa as capital.[34] Another set, the Tale of Zalpa, supports Zalpa and exonerates the later Hattusili I from the charge of sacking Kanesh.[34]

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Anitta was succeeded by Zuzzu (r. 1720 — 1710 BC);[33] but sometime in 1710—1705 BC, Kanesh was destroyed taking the long-established Assyrian merchant trading system with it.[30] A Kussaran noble family survived to contest the Zalpuwan / Hattusan family, though whether these were of the direct line of Anitta is uncertain.[35]

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Meanwhile, the lords of Zalpa lived on. Huzziya I, descendant of a Huzziya of Zalpa, took over Hatti. His son-in-law Labarna I, a southerner (of Hurma) usurped the throne but made sure to adopt Huzziya's grandson Hattusili as his own son and heir.
....

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Old Kingdom[edit]

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Hattusa ramp
The founding of the Hittite Kingdom is attributed to either Labarna I or Hattusili I (the latter might also have had Labarna as a personal name),[36] who conquered the area south and north of Hattusa. Hattusili I campaigned as far as the Semitic Amorite kingdom of Yamkhad in Syria, where he attacked, but did not capture, its capital of Aleppo. Hattusili I did eventually capture Hattusa and was credited for the foundation of the Hittite Empire. According to The Edict of Telepinu, which dates back to the 16th century BC, "Hattusili was king, and his sons, brothers, in-laws, family members, and troops were all united. Wherever he went on campaign he controlled the enemy land with force. He destroyed the lands one after the other, took away their power, and made them the borders of the sea. When he came back from campaign, however, each of his sons went somewhere to a country, and in his hand the great cities prospered. But, when later the princes’ servants became corrupt, they began to devour the properties, conspired constantly against their masters, and began to shed their blood. This excerpt from the edict is supposed to illustrate the unification, growth, and prosperity of the Hittites under his rule. It also illustrates the corruption of "the princes" who are believed to be his sons. The corruption is dealt with, however, the lack of sources leads to uncertainty with how the corruption was dealt with. On Hattusili I's deathbed his chooses his grandson, Mursuli I, as his heir.[37] Mursili I, conquered that city in a campaign conducted against the Amorites in 1595 BC (middle chronology).[38] Also in 1595 BC, Mursili I (or Murshilish I) conducted a great raid down the Euphrates River, bypassing Assyria and captured Mari and Babylonia, ejecting the Amorite founders of the Babylonian state in the process.[38] However, the Hittite campaigns caused internal dissension which forced a withdrawal of troops to the Hittite homelands. Throughout the remainder of the 16th century BC, the Hittite kings were held to their homelands by dynastic quarrels and warfare with the Hurrianstheir neighbours to the east.[38] Also the campaigns into Amurru (modern Syria) and southern Mesopotamia may be responsible for the reintroduction of cuneiform writing into Anatolia, since the Hittite script is quite different from the script of the preceding Assyrian Colonial period.

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Mursili continued the conquests of Hattusili I. Mursili's conquests reached southern Mesopotamia and even ransacked Babylon itself in 1531 BC (short chronology).[39] Rather than incorporate Babylonia into Hittite domains, Mursili seems to have instead turned control of Babylonia over to his Kassite allies, who were to rule it for the next four centuries.
Hittites - Wikipedia

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They used the cuneiform script which means they were well aware of the Mesopotamian writings. Sumerian to Babylonian from 3000 BCE to 500 BCE had this script. And the Kassites (who had Indo Aryan names) were rulers over Babylon for 400 years.They knew Akkadian.I don't know why there was so little mixing of Israelites/Canaanites (with outsiders though they clearly mixed in with each other - infact they were essentially the same people) after 1700 BCE but the Abrahamic period was one of large scale mixing both in blood and culture (including mythology).

I was saying that there was a strong ancestral element that comes from the east. (as the 1700 BCE burials of Sidon show)(And I'm not sure we are understanding each other btw)Next issue.On the 1 Kings text, the Canaanites lived with the Israelites and even built the Temple. The actual town of Sidon was mentioned. Or the Sidonians themselves (the Bible calls Canaanites Sidonians during the Monarchy period I suppose).And they lived in Israelite towns in the books known as the Former Prophets.Joshua (like Gibeon) (like Sidon)Judges (again)Samuel (like Gibeon)Kings (Tyre , Sidon, and the Sidonions)Ahab had lots of children with the Canaanite princess.EDIT I was saying that there was a mixing in process. And it would have happened across the Euphrates (on both ends) too. Wandering West Semites (Amorites) would have settled down and been eventually absorbed. But others would have been absorbed by the West Semites.West Semites or Amorites would have had lots of diverse ancestry in the DNA.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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In the 1 Kings text you quoted the Sodonians are among the subjects of Tyre, and are to be employed cutting down trees in the Lebanon, which is under the rule of Tyre. That does not support your strange idea that "Sidonian" is a general term for Canaanites, nor that the Sidonians were living alongside the Israelites.

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Look at what the text says.

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1 Kings 11
New International Version (NIV)

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Solomon’s Wives

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11 King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh’s daughterMoabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. 2 They were from nations about which the Lord had told the Israelites, You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods. Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done.

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Also.You must have stopped reading my post number 14 before you read the Joshua and Judges quotes.Sidon was the firstborn of Canaan

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Canaan

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International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

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....
Canaan in the Old Testament

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The Geography of Canaan

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In Numbers 13:29 the Canaanites are described as dwelling "by the sea, and along by the side of the Jordan," i.e. in the lowlands of Palestine. The name was confined to the country West of the Jordan (Nu 33:51; Josh 22:9), and was especially applied to Phoenicia (Isa 23:11; compare Mt 15:22).

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Hence, Sidon is called the "firstborn" of Canaan (Gen 10:15, though compare Jdg 3:3), and the Septuagint translates "Canaanites" by "Phoenicians" and "Canaan" by the "land of the Phoenicians" (Ex 16:35; Josh 5:12). Kinakhkhi is used in the same restricted sense in the Tell el-Amarna Letters, but it is also extended so as to include Palestine generally. On the other hand, on the Egyptian monuments Seti I calls a town in the extreme South of Palestine "the city of Pa-Kana'na" or "the Canaan," which Conder identifies with the modern Khurbet Kenan near Hebron.

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septuagint translated sidonian as phoenician - Google SearchThen, in response to my "I was saying that there was a strong ancestral element that comes from the east. (as the 1700 BCE burials of Sidon show)", you asked:

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And how exactly does that connect to Abraham ?

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It means that Abraham lived during the time that I think the major "Iranian" migrations also took place. Just before 1700 BCE.But understand that the scientific interpretation of this Sidon burial matching Iranian burials is interpreted as saying the migration took place around 3000 BCE.I connect it to the Hurrian migrations that I feel were before the Sidonian burials. (The whole Hurrian issue is controversial because many prominent archaeologists say the major Hurrian arrivals didn't occur until after the Hyksos period ended (that is after 1500 BCE))I just put a relevant search term into googleamenhoteph !! hurrian captive list - Google SearchThe first hit ha da good historian talking about 1600-1550 being the period of major Hurrian migrations into Palestine. I would say the evidence places it earlier. (many say they didn't arrive until the 1400s BCE)Ancient Near Eastern History and Culture - William H. Stiebing Jr., Susan N. Helft - Google BooksHere is one hit by a prominent archaeologist.

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Thurmoses IV, and Amenhotep III, ruled ...

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The Manasseh Hill Country Survey: Volume 3: From Nahal ‘Iron to ...

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isbn:9004312307 - Google Search

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Adam Zertal Z"l, Nivi Mirkam Z"l, Shay Bar - 2016 - Religion
Two of the letters were sent by Amenhotep, an Egyptian functionary from Gaza, to the ruler of Ta'anach, requesting chariots, soldiers, captives, and taxes. ... the names are Western Semitic and 20 % are Indo-European or Hurrian-Anatolian. ... 15th century: of Thutmosis III, the el-Amarna letters (EA 248), and in Shishak's list.

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Anyway the link in my OP has about 51% of Phoenician (Sidonian!) blood being Iranian type blood from 4500 BCE until 1500 BCE. (the possible date ranges based on DNA science)About 10% more from somewhere between 1700 and 200 BCE. I would place that 10% as reflecting a period around the Persian Period and Greco-Roman period.I assume that most scientists would say that the Hurrian arrivals from around circa 1500 BCE represent the 1700-100 BCE DNA interpretation (the 10%).They would say that the 1700 Sidonian burials predated the Hurrian arrival.I would question if 1700 BCE burial is even an accurate date. It could be later. (How did they get that date for the burials anyway? Maybe it could actually be 1500-1600 BCE and not 1700 BCE)But Abraham lived in the mixed area according to the Bible (He wandered in the Euphrates area then he went off to Palestine and he was from Mesopotamia). He was a wandering Syrian and the Hurrians were present there in Syria. He could have been mixed as the larger culture was.

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In the 1 Kings text you quoted the Sodonians are among the subjects of Tyre, and are to be employed cutting down trees in the Lebanon, which is under the rule of Tyre. That does not support your strange idea that "Sidonian" is a general term for Canaanites, nor that the Sidonians were living alongside the Israelites.

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I found a link that took my interpretation of 1 Kings 5

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The names Tyre and Sidon were famous in the ancient Near East. They are also important cities in the Old and New Testaments. Both are now located in Lebanon, with Tyre 20 mi south of Sidon and only 12 mi north of the Israel-Lebanon border. Today each is just a shadow of their former selves.

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Sidon, called Saida today (Arabic for fishing), was named after the firstborn son of Canaan (Gn 10:15) and probably settled by his descendants. The northern border of ancient Canaan extended to Sidon (Gn 10:19). Later, Jacob spoke of it as the boundary of Zebulun (Gn 49:13) and Joshua included it as part of the land promised to Israel (Jos 13:6). Sidon was included in the inheritance of Asher, on its northern boundary (Jos 19:28), but it was not taken by that tribe in conquest (Jgs 1:31, 3:3). Settled from the beginning as a port city, Sidon was built on a promontory with a nearby offshore island that sheltered the harbor from storms.

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Twenty mi south of Sidon, in the middle of a coastal plain, Tyre (called Sour in Arabic today) was constructed on a rock island a few hundred yards out into the Mediterranean (Ward 1997:247). In fact, the city took its name from this rock island. Tyre comes from the Semetic sr (Hebrew Sor, Arabic Sur, Babylonian Surru, Egyptian Dr,) meaning rock.

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Located at the foot of some of the Lebanese mountain’s southwestern ridges and near the gorge of the ancient Leontes River (the modern Litani), the rich and well-watered plain became the fortified island’s primary source or food, water, wood and other living essentials. Apparently the island was fortified first and called Tyre, while the coastal city directly opposite was settled later. It was originally called Ushu in cuneiform texts (Ward 1997:247) and later Palaetyrus (old Tyre) in Greek texts (Jidejian 1996:19).

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The Canaanites

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Historical and archaeological evidence indicate both cities were settled by the early second millennium BC and were important seaports long before the Israelites settled in Canaan. Yet, while Sidon was mentioned many times during the Canaanite and early Israelite periods in the Bible, Tyre first appeared as part of Asher’s western boundary (Jos 19:29). Specifically called a fortified city in this passage, it was noted as a significant landmark. Tyre does not appear again in the Bible until Hiram, king of Tyre, sends cedar, carpenters, and masons to build David’s house (2 Sm 5:11).

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While both cities are mentioned in a number of second millennium BC extra-Biblical documents, the most interesting accounts come from the Amarna Letters. Actual letters from the kings of both cities were found among the Amarna Letters (ca. 1350 BC). Zimrida, king of Sidon wrote one (EA [El Amarna] 144, ) or maybe two (EA 145) of the Amarna Letters. Abi-Milki, king of Tyre, sent ten letters to the Egyptian Pharaoh (EA 146—155).

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Although the dates of Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey are still in dispute, only Sidon and Sidonians are mentioned (17 times: Iliad 6.290—91; 23.743-44; Odyssey 4.83, 84, 618; 13.272, 285; 14.288, 291; 15.118, 415, 417, 419, 425, 473). Yet the failure to mention either Tyre or Tyrians may not be significant. At least some of Homer’s usage appears to relate the term Sidonian with Phoenicians in general (see also 1 Kgs 5:6; Jidejian 1996:60). It would seem that during the second millennium BC, Sidon was the pre-eminent of the two port cities. It also appears, during the first millennium BC, that Tyre eclipsed Sidon.

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Home - Associates for Biblical Research

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sidon sidonians judges 3 - Google SearchThe article is much longer than what I quoted and gets around to the Israelite period.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

I said this:

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Look at what the text says.

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You said this

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I did. That's how I know what it said. And quoting 1 Kings 11 doesn't change what 1 Kings 5 says.

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Aren't we generally arguing over whether Canaanites lived among the Israelites (and then the issue is the two having kids together)?They lived together and married.

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Judges 1:27-35
New International Version (NIV)
27 But Manasseh did not drive out the people of Beth Shan or Taanach or Dor or Ibleam or Megiddo and their surrounding settlements, for the Canaanites were determined to live in that land. 28 When Israel became strong, they pressed the Canaanites into forced labor but never drove them out completely. 29 Nor did Ephraim drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, but the Canaanites continued to live there among them. 30 Neither did Zebulun drive out the Canaanites living in Kitron or Nahalol, so these Canaanites lived among them, but Zebulun did subject them to forced labor. 31 Nor did Asher drive out those living in Akko or Sidon or Ahlab or Akzib or Helbah or Aphek or Rehob. 32 The Asherites lived among the Canaanite inhabitants of the land because they did not drive them out. 33 Neither did Naphtali drive out those living in Beth Shemesh or Beth Anath; but the Naphtalites too lived among the Canaanite inhabitants of the land, and those living in Beth Shemesh and Beth Anath became forced laborers for them. 34 The Amorites confined the Danites to the hill country, not allowing them to come down into the plain. 35 And the Amorites were determined also to hold out in Mount Heres, Aijalon and Shaalbim, but when the power of the tribes of Joseph increased, they too were pressed into forced labor.

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Solomon had Sidonian wives.Ahab did too.Saul had kids with Baal as part of their name.Round out the United Monarchy with David taking the wife of a Hittite.

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We have no good evidence of when Abraham is supposed to have lived, but Jewish tradition puts it 100 years earlier.

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Your dates are all over the place anyway, and all you've got are vague associations. So, nothing of consequence.

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The Patriarchs married Syrians and the household Idol of Laban seems to match up well with Hurrian parallels(?).They were at least influenced by the culture around them.They could have been mixed.Or at least descended from ancestors that mixed with Hurrian or Iranian types.

I said this

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It means that Abraham lived during the time that I think the major "Iranian" migrations also took place. Just before 1700 BCE.

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You said this

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We have no good evidence of when Abraham is supposed to have lived, but Jewish tradition puts it 100 years earlier.

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Your dates are all over the place anyway, and all you've got are vague associations. So, nothing of consequence.

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I was just fishing around on google and I seem to have found a good recent book online (it is a violation of copyright for sure, but read this fine book while you can). Introduction to the Hebrew Bible by J J Collins has a lot of text (I have the book and the software CD that came with it and it is like 600 pages)on a website.I found this book by chance after I put "laban household idol hurrian parallel nuzi text" into google and found the book on page 8.Notice that this decade old book has the Hyksos arriving around 1750 BCE so that shows how the dates are floating (DNA clock dates are the ones with the wildest range, but radio carbon and archaeological interpretations have a lot of issues too)Notice that it talks about a possible connection to the Patriarchal stories.Mentions the Syrian connection to the Hyksos.

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Introduction to the Hebrew Bible
J. J. Collins

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p.102
Many scholars have tried to find a kernel of history in the Joseph story. There was a time (c. 1750—1550 b.c.e.) when people from Syria, known as the Hyksos, ruled Egypt. The main account of these people is found in the Hellenistic Egyptian historian Manetho, who also calls them Shepherds. Manetho claims that some of the Hyksos settled in Jerusalem when they were expelled from Egypt. We shall consider the story further in connection with the exodus. The career of Joseph, however, bears little resemblance to anything we know of Hyksos rule in Egypt. The Hyksos were a hostile invading force; Joseph is throughout the faithful servant of Pharaoh, and his people settle peacefully in Goshen, away from the settlements of the native Egyptians, because all shepherds are abhorrent to the Egyptians (46:34*). Any historical reminiscences in this story are incidental.

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jjcollinsP02

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The Exodus section talks about the Hittite treaties matching the Torah treaties.

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p.108ff
As we have seen in the introductory chapter, the internal chronology of the Bible suggests a date about 1445 b.c.e. for the exodus. There is little evidence, however, that would enable us to corroborate the biblical account by relating it other sources. The exodus, as reported in the Bible, is not attested in any ancient nonbiblical source. While it might be argued that the escape of the Israelites was inconsequential for the Egyptians, and therefore not recorded, in fact the Egyptians kept tight control over their eastern border and kept careful records. If a large group of Israelites had departed, we should expect some mention of it. For an Egyptian account of the origin of Israel, however, we have to wait until the Hellenistic era, when a priest named Manetho wrote a history of Egypt in Greek. Manetho claimed that Jerusalem was built in the land now called Judea by the Hyksos, after they were expelled from Egypt. (On the Hyksos see chapter 1 above. They were people of Syrian origin who ruled Egypt for a time and were driven out of Egypt c. 1530 b.c.e.) He goes on to tell a more elaborate tale about an attempt to expel lepers from Egypt. Some eighty thousand of these, we are told, including some learned priests, were assembled and set to work in stone quarries. They rebelled, however, under the leadership of one Osarseph, who summoned the Hyksos from Jerusalem to his aid. They returned and proceeded to commit various outrages and blasphemies in Egypt, but were eventually driven out. Osarseph, we are told, was also called Moses. The account is preserved by the Jewish historian Josephus in Against Apion 1.228—52. Manetho probably did not invent this story. Another, slightly earlier, Hellenistic writer, Hecataeus of Abdera, also says that Jerusalem was built by people, led by Moses, who had been driven out of Egypt. There was a strong folk memory in Egypt of the Hyksos as the hated foreigners from Asia who had once ruled the country. But the idea that Jerusalem had been built by these people is probably a late guess: it provided Egyptians with an explanation of the origin of the strange people just beyond their borders. It is unlikely that Manetho had any reliable tradition about the origin of Israel.

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The biblical account itself offers few specific details that might be corroborated by external evidence. The pharaoh is never named: he remains simply the king or Pharaoh like a character in a folktale. The most specific references in the biblical text are found in Exodus 1, where we are told that a pharaoh who knew not Joseph was concerned at the size and power of the Israelites and set them to work building the cities Pithom and Rameses. Rameses is presumably the city of Pi-Ramesse, which was built on the site of the old Hyksos capital of Avaris. It was reoccupied in the time of Ramesses II (1304—1237 b.c.e.). The location of Pithom (Per-Atum) is uncertain. One of the possible sites was also rebuilt in Ramesside times. Because of this, most scholars have favored a date around 1250 b.c.e. for the exodus. All we can really say, however, is that the biblical [Page 109] account was written at some time after the building of Pi-Ramesse and Per-Atum, and possibly that the author was aware of some tradition associating Semitic laborers with these sites. If the story of the exodus has any historical basis, then the thirteenth century b.c.e. provides the most plausible backdrop.
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Treaty and Covenant

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Much light has been thrown on the structure of the Sinai covenant by analogies with ancient Near Eastern treaties. A large corpus of such treaties, dating over a span of more than a thousand years, has come to light during the last century. Two clusters of these treaties are especially important: a group of Hittite treaties from the period 1500 to 1200 b.c.e. and a group of Assyrian treaties from the eighth century. These treaties are called vassal or suzerainty treaties. They are not made between equal partners, but involve the submission of one party (the vassal) to the other (the suzerain). While the individual treaties differ from each other in various ways, certain elements remain typical across the centuries.

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[Page 122] The typical pattern in the Hittite treaties is as follows:

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1. The preamble, in which the suzerain identifies himself (I am Mursilis, the Sun, King of Hatti).

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2. The historical prologue, or history that led up to the making of the treaty. In one such treaty the Hittite king Mursilis tells how he put his vassal, Duppi-Tessub, on his throne, despite his illness, and forced his brothers and subjects to take an oath of loyalty. Another recalls how the Hittites had conquered the land of Wilusa, and how it had never rebelled after that (ANET 203—5).

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3. The stipulations, requirements, or terms of the treaty. These are often couched in highly personal terms. Hittite treaties demand that the subjects protect the Sun [the Hittite king] as a friend and report any unfriendly words that they hear about him. An Assyrian king, Esarhaddon, demands loyalty to his son Ashurbanipal by telling his subjects you will love as yourselves Ashurbanipal. It is essential to these treaties that the vassal recognize no other lord or not turn his eyes to anyone else.

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4. There is provision for the deposition or display of the text of the treaty, and sometimes for its periodic recitation.

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5. There is a list of witnesses, consisting of the gods before whom the treaty oath is sworn.

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6. Finally, there is a list of curses and blessings that indicate the consequences of observing or breaking the treaty.

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The essential logic of the treaty is found in the second, third, and sixth elements. The heart of the treaty lies in the stipulations. These are supported by the recollection of the sequence of events that led up to the making of the treaty and by the prospect of blessings or curses to follow. The historical prologue is a distinctive feature of the Hittite treaties. The Assyrian treaties are distinguished by the prominence of the curses.

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All the elements of this treaty form are paralleled in the Hebrew Bible, but they are scattered in various books. The most complete parallels are found in Deuteronomy, which also parallels the Assyrian treaties in matters of detail, as we shall see later in chapter 8. In the case of Exodus, the beginning of chapter 20 (I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt) combines the introductory preamble with a very brief historical prologue (in a sense, the whole story of the exodus is the historical prologue). The stipulations are amply represented by the Ten Commandments and other laws. Exodus, however, does not address the deposition of the document, the witnesses, or the curses and blessings. (All these elements are found in Deuteronomy.) It does not appear, then, that the Sinai revelation in Exodus follows the full form of the vassal treaties, although it resembles them in some respects.

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[Page 123] The parallels with the Hittite treaties have been especially controversial, since they have potential implications for the date at which the covenant was conceived. The Hittites lived in Asia Minor, in what is now eastern Turkey. They were active in the area of Syria only in the Late Bronze Age (c. 1500—1200 b.c.e.), precisely the time in which Israel is thought to have emerged. At that time they challenged Egypt for control of this region. If it could be shown that the Israelite conception of the covenant was modeled specifically on the Hittite treaties, then it would follow that the covenant was indeed a very early element in the religion of Israel. This argument was especially attractive to American scholars of the Albright school. Against this, the tradition of German scholarship viewed the covenant as a late development, fully articulated only in Deuteronomy and later writings.

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Example of Hittite treaty

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When I, the Sun, sought after you in accordance with your father’s word and put you in your father’s place, I took you in oath for the king of the Hatti land, and for my sons and grandsons, So honor the oath (of loyalty) to the king and the king’s kin! And I the king will be loyal toward you, Duppi-Tessub. When you take a wife, and when you beget an heir, he shall be king in the Amurru land likewise. And just as I shall be loyal toward you, even so shall I be loyal toward your son. But you, Duppi-Tessub, remain loyal toward the king of the Hatti land, my sons (and) my grandsons forever! The tribute which was imposed upon your grandfather and your fatherthey presented 300 shekels of good, refined first-class gold weighed with standard weightsyou shall present them likewise. Do not turn your eyes to anyone else! Your fathers presented tribute to Egypt; you [shall not do that!]

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(Treaty between Hittite king Mursilis and Duppi-Tessub of Amurru, trans. A. Goetze, ANET, 204).

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back to Collins text

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The argument for Hittite influence rests primarily on the role of history in both Hittite and Israelite texts. Nothing is more characteristic of the Hebrew Bible than the repeated summaries of salvation history. The primary examples of these summaries, however, are found in Deuteronomy and Deuteronomic texts (see, for example, Deut 6:21—25*; 26:5—9*; Josh 24:2—13*) that are no earlier than the late seventh century b.c.e. Moreover, Deuteronomy has several clear parallels with Assyrian treaties of the eighth century b.c.e. It is possible that Israel developed its interest in the recitation of history independently of the Hittite treaties, and that the similarity in this respect is coincidental. At stake here is the choice between two very different views of the development of Israelite religion. On the account found in the Bible itself, the law was revealed to Moses [Page 124] at the beginning of Israel’s history, in the course of the exodus from Egypt. Later generations of Israelites fell away from this Mosaic revelation, but it was recovered at the time of the Deuteronomic reform and became the basis for Second Temple Judaism. On the other view, which is held by many scholars, especially in the German tradition, the exodus was originally celebrated in itself as proof of God’s election of Israel. Later, the prophets argued that election should entail responsibility, and this eventually led to the linking of exodus and law, and the idea that God had made a conditional covenant with Israel. The choice between these two views of Israelite religion will make a difference in our reading of the prophetic books, where the issue is whether the prophets were appealing to an old tradition or were innovators in trying to focus the religion on ethical issues.

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The treaty analogies throw some light on the Sinai covenant in any case. The demand for exclusive allegiance in Exod 20:3*, you shall have no other gods before me, is directly comparable to the demands that Hittite and Assyrian sovereigns made on their subjects. Also, the link between exodus and Sinai in the existing text of Exodus is clear. The Israelites are obligated to obey the law because of what God has done for them in bringing them out of Egypt. The goal of liberation is not individual autonomy but a society regulated by the law revealed to Moses. The treaty analogies serve to underline the political and social character of biblical religion. The parallels between Exodus and the Hittite treaties are not so close, however, as to guarantee that this understanding of the relation between history and law was present already in the time of Moses, or in the beginnings of Israelite history.

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Amurru was the Amorite Kingdom.

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Amurru was an Amorite kingdom established c. 2000 BC,[1] in a region spanning present-day western and north-western Syria and northern Lebanon [2][3][4]

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The first documented leader of Amurru was Abdi-Ashirta, under whose leadership Amurru was part of the Egyptian empire. His son Aziru made contact with the Hittite king Suppiluliuma I, and eventually defected to the Hittites.

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The Amurru kingdom was destroyed by the Sea Peoples around 1200 B.C.

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Amurru kingdom - Wikipedia

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And Hurrians lived among them.Ever hear of the story of Idrimi of Alalakh?

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Idrimi was the king of Alalakh in the 15th century BC (c. 1460—1400 BC). He was a Hurrianised son of Ilim-Ilimma I the king of Halab, now Aleppo, who had possibly been deposed by the new regional master, Barattarna or Parshatatar, king of the Mitanni. Nevertheless, he succeeded in gaining the throne of Alalakh with the assistance of a group known as the Habiru.[1] Idrimi founded the kingdom of Mukish and ruled from Alalakh as a vassal to the Mitanni state. He also invaded the Hittite territories to the north, resulting in a treaty with the country Kizzuwatna. Idrimi is known from an inscription on a statue found at Alalakh by Leonard Woolley in the 1930s and 1940s, revealing new insights about the history of Syria in the mid-second millennium
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Sources of Idrimi[edit]

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All three sources were discovered by British archaeologist Leonard Woolley within the Level IV (Late Bronze Age in the mid-15th century BC) archives of the Alalakh palace and come from his collection at the British Museum.

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Statue text[edit]

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A rough Akkadian autobiographical inscription on the Statue of Idrimi's base found at Alalakh within a pit of a Level 1 temple at the site of Tell Atchana (Alalakh) in northern Syria (ca. 1200) records Idrimi's vicissitudes.[3] The first part of the inscription revealed Idrimi's circumstances fleeing from Aleppo. The translated inscription, according to author Amlie Kuhrt, stated: "I am Idrimi, the son of Ilimilimma, servant of Teshub,[4] Hepat,[5] and Shaushga,[6] the lady of Alalakh, my mistress. In Aleppo, in the house of my fathers, a crime had occurred and we fled. The Lords of Emar were descended from the sisters of my mother, so we settled in Emar. My brothers, who were older than me, also lived with me..."[7] After his family had been forced to flee to Emar, with his mother's people, he realized that he wouldn't wield real power in Emar, saying "...but he that is with the people of Emar, is a slave." As a result, He left his family and brothers, took his horse, chariot, and squire, went into the desert, and joined the "Hapiru people" in "Ammija (Amiya) in the land of Canaan", where other refugees from Aleppo ("the people from Halab, people from the land Mukish [dominated by Alalakh], people from the land of Nihi [near the Orontes River in Syria], and people of the land Amae (possibly between Aleppo and Apamea[clarification needed]) recognized him as the "son of their overlord" and "gathered around him."[8]
Idrimi - Wikipedia

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Read more of this fascinating story.alalah hurrian idrimi - Google Searchalakah hurrian idrimi - Google SearchI see lots of evidence of people living among and traveling around each other.But The Hurrians were among the mostly Semitic Hyksos and the same Hyksoss seem to have come from Syria.I have suggested that Indo Iranians that had myths similar to the Vedas could have brought the stories to Mesopotamia, Palestine, and Greece before 1500 BCE.The book I quoted earlier (by Lewis Hopfe) said that the Iranians went both to the east (India) and west (Palestine) while those who stayed in Iran became the authors of the Gathas.The Greek Hellhound (in Hades), Indian Yama (in the Vedas!), and Persian Yima could be explained thusly. (the author doesn't mention these texts however)But the author said that there are two views on the dates of the Vedas. The more common view places their composition after the Indo Aryan arrival into India after 1700 BCE, specifically the dates for the beginning of the composition are 1500 BCE while they were finished 400 BCE.Another view places the beginning composition BEFORE the arrival into India (from Iran) and around 2000 BCE and then the final touches were about 600 AD.The primeval dragon (which the amazing scholar J J Collins talks about in his Hebrew Bible book, but makes no mention of India) might have come from Iran!Regardless of whether it came from Iran or India, it is more evidence of an Abraham that might have been part Iranian/Hurrian in ancestry.

First understand that we have ancient Iranian burials from which we can get a DNA sample.The Iranian burial remains have been shown to have about half of the same DNA type that was in ancient Palestinians (from 1700 B.C. on for sure).That is an Iranian connection.Now look at the Indian Hindu history.

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RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD
FOURTH EDITION
Lewis M. Hopfe
1988

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p.84

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The term Aryan is a Sanskrit word that means "the noble ones" ; this word was applied to a group of migrants who moved into the Indus valley in the second millennium B.C. from the regions of Persia. The Aryans are believed to have been the people who first tamed horses on a wide scale and used them to pull war chariots. They were related to the Hyksos people who INVADED Egypt in the second millennium B.C. and ruled it for two hundred years. ...The Aryans who did not migrate into India became the founders of Zoroastrianism. There are many similarities between the religion revealed in the Indian Vedic literature and the Gathas of Zoroastrianism. These same people later founded the Persian Empire, which ruled the Middle East from the sixth to the fourth centuries B.C.
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During the period between 1750 and 1200 B.C. the Aryans came in migratory waves into the Indus valley

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p.87

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The Vedas were developed as the Aryans came into India, settled there, and mingled their religion with that of the native peoples. There is dispute over the exact period in which the Vedas were written. Some scholars believe that the earliest of the Vedic hymns may have developed prior to the coming of the Aryans, before 2000 B.C. ... Like much other ancient religious literature, there is no way of knowing the exact time of the origin and development of these books. Undoubtedly they were first composed and transmitted orally...
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p.88

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The mantra and Brahmana sections are considered to be the oldest material in the Vedas, with the Aranyakas and the Upanishads having been added later.

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They came from Persia (perhaps they indeed came from there, but Indians could have been native to India and still have their myths travel across Iran and into the Middle East via the mass populations movements from Iran).Hindus.I quoted the primeval dragon story from book 4.

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Rigveda is one of the oldest extant texts in any Indo-European language.[13] Philological and linguistic evidence indicate that the Rigveda was composed in the north-western region of the Indian subcontinent, most likely between c. 1500 and 1200 BC,[14][15][16] though a wider approximation of c. 1700—1100 BC has also been given.[17][18][note 1] The initial codification of the Rigveda took place during the early Kuru kingdom (c. 1200 — c. 900 BCE).

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Text

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Organization

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The Rigveda is not a book,
but a library and a literature.

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E Vernon Arnold, Cambridge University[24]

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Mandala

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The text is organized in 10 books, known as Mandalas, of varying age and length.[25]

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The "family books", mandalas 2—7, are the oldest part of the Rigveda and the shortest books; they are arranged by length (decreasing[26][27] length of hymns per book) and account for 38% of the text.

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Rigveda - Wikipedia

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Mandala 4 is among the oldest.I quoted it above (message 7).The Hyksos were mixed in with Hurrians and arrived in Palestine before the (Mesopotamian) Kassite dynasty dragged back the statue of Marduk. It is possible that Enuma Elish was composed after the return of the Marduk statue.We could have an explanation for the parallel development of the primal dragon among both the Mesopotamians and Canaanites (which in turn was also an Israelite story).Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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Can you reference any peer-reviewed papers on the subject, particularly ones that leave out all that religious stuff?

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On which issue specifically?(Not saying I can)

I will quote you, PaulK, in the three posts combined.

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In the 1 Kings text you quoted the Sodonians are among the subjects of Tyre, and are to be employed cutting down trees in the Lebanon, which is under the rule of Tyre. That does not support your strange idea that "Sidonian" is a general term for Canaanites, nor that the Sidonians were living alongside the Israelites.
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I did. That's how I know what it said. And quoting 1 Kings 11 doesn't change what 1 Kings 5 says.

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We're arguing over whether Sidon should be counted as part of Israel. Kings marrying foreign princesses hardly counts.

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And 1 Kings 5 clearly identified the Sidonians as subjects of Tyre, living in the Lebanon.

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My main concern was that the Hurrians (who indeed included worshippers of Mithra and Varuna, despite those devas not generally being included in their religion according to most historical treatments) were present in Jerusalem and were a major element of the pre Israelite "Canaanite" population.I then was concerned about the Canaanite population at large.I was then interested in the Post monarchy Israelites mixing in with the Canaanites (which had a lot of Hurrian blood).Here is a good fundamentalist resource to make my point.I changed the format to make it simpler to read, but al the text is there.

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Naves Compact Topical Bible
ZONDERVAN PUBLISHING HOUSE
Academic and Professional Books
Grand Rapids, Michigan
A Division of HarperCollins Publisher
Copyright 1972 by the Zondervan Corporation

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p.239.

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Jebusites.

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One of the tribes of Canaan (De 7:1).

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Land of, given to Abraham and his descendants (Ge 15:21; Ex 3:8,17; 23:23,24; De 20:17; Ex33:2; 34:10,11)

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Conquered by Joshua (Jos 10-12; and 24:11); by David (2 Sa 5:6-9).

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Jerusalem within the territory of (Jos 18:28).

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Not exterminated, but intermarry with the Israelites (J'g 3:5,6; Ezr 9:1,2; 10:18-44)

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Pay tribute to Solomon (1 Ki 9:20,21).

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The Hurrians are known to have been leaders of Jerusalem (based on names in the Biblical and non biblical sources)From Wikipedia

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Ethnic origin[edit]

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The Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) contains the only surviving ancient text known to use the term Jebusite to describe the pre-Israelite inhabitants of Jerusalem; according to the Table of Nations at Genesis 10, the Jebusites are identified as a Canaanite tribe, which is listed in third place among the Canaanite groups, between the biblical Hittites and the Amorites. Prior to modern archaeological studies, most biblical scholars held the opinion that the Jebusites were identical to the Hittites, which continues to be the case, though less so.[13] However, an increasingly popular view, first put forward by Edward Lipinski, professor of Oriental and Slavonic studies at the Catholic University of Leuven, is that the Jebusites were most likely an Amorite tribe; Lipinski identified them with the group referred to as Yabusi'um in a cuneiform letter found in the archive of Mari, Syria.[14] As Lipinski noted, however, it is entirely possible that more than one clan or tribe bore similar names, and thus that the Jebusites and Yabusi'um may have been separate people altogether.[15]

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In the Amarna letters, mention is made that the contemporaneous king of Jerusalem was named Abdi-Heba, which is a theophoric name invoking a Hurrian mother goddess named Hebat. This implies that the Jebusites were Hurrians themselves, were heavily influenced by Hurrian culture, or were dominated by a Hurrian maryannu class (i.e., a Hurrian warrior-class elite).[16] Moreover, the last Jebusite king of Jerusalem, Araunah/Awarna/Arawna (or Ornan),[17] bore a name generally understood as based on the Hurrian honorific ewir.[18]

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Richard Hess[19] (1997:34—6) points to four Hurrian names in the Bible's Conquest narrative: Piram (king of Jarmuth) and Hoham (king of Hebron) (Jos 10:3), Sheshai and Talmai, sons of Anak (Jos 15:14) with Hurrian-based names.
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18.Jump up ^ Communication from Jonathan D. Safren, Dept. of Biblical Studies, Beit Berl College, Israel (Aug 1, 2000.) Gwilym H. Jones, The Nathan Narratives - Gwilym Henry Jones - Google Books Nathan Narratives (JSOT Supplement) p. 122 (Jan 1990)

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Jebusites - Wikipedia

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The Nathan Narratives - Gwilym Henry Jones - Google Books

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Abdi-Heba

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Jump to: navigation, search

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Abdi-Heba (Abdi-Kheba, Abdi-Hepat, or Abdi-Hebat) was a local chieftain of Jerusalem during the Amarna period (mid-1330s BC). Abdi-Heba's name can be translated as "servant of Hebat", a Hurrian goddess. Whether Abdi-Heba was himself of Hurrian descent is unknown, as is the relationship between the general populace of pre-Israelite Jerusalem (called, several centuries later, Jebusites in the Bible) and the Hurrians. Egyptian documents have him deny he was a ḫaznu and assert he is a soldier (we'w), the implication being he was the son of a local chief sent to Egypt to receive military training there.[1]
Abdi-Heba - Wikipedia

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hurrians amarna letters jerusalem - Google SearchFrom the Naves topical dictionary.

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p.209

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Horite, Horim, people conquered by Chedorlaomer (Ge 14:6); may be same as Hivites (Ge 34:2; Jos 9:7); thought to be Hurrians, from highlands of Media

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Shechem is important and Gen 34 is that story.