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Author Topic:   MACROevolution vs MICROevolution - what is it?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 862 of 908 (818309)
08-26-2017 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 861 by dwise1
08-26-2017 3:30 PM


Of course, you will read none of this, because your false theology requires you to keep yourself as ignorant as possible.
No, I won't read it because of that insulting sentence and some other similar stuff I encountered on a quick skim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 861 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2017 3:30 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 863 by jar, posted 08-26-2017 6:16 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 864 of 908 (818314)
08-26-2017 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 863 by jar
08-26-2017 6:16 PM


Re: Come into the Light Faith, leave the darkness.
Calling me ignorant will get you nowhere. I think my YEC views are far superior to everything else said on this thread. I've made the case and I'm not talking to people who insult me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 863 by jar, posted 08-26-2017 6:16 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 865 by Percy, posted 08-26-2017 7:49 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 866 by Coyote, posted 08-26-2017 10:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 867 of 908 (818319)
08-26-2017 11:02 PM


Sumry uv the weirdness
EvC is obviously some kind of alternative universe. Nothing here makes sense, nobody makes sense, what people say about me would be funny if it weren't so bizarre. In any case I'm no longer discussing anything with people who insult me in such bizarre ways with such a strange lack of understanding of the argument.
Cheers.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 868 by PaulK, posted 08-27-2017 1:27 AM Faith has replied
 Message 871 by Percy, posted 08-27-2017 9:02 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 869 of 908 (818322)
08-27-2017 4:47 AM
Reply to: Message 868 by PaulK
08-27-2017 1:27 AM


Re: Sumry uv the weirdness
Amazing. Nothing but snark as usual. Amazing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 868 by PaulK, posted 08-27-2017 1:27 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 870 by PaulK, posted 08-27-2017 5:05 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 872 of 908 (818344)
08-27-2017 10:42 AM


Sumry uv Sum uv thuh evdince agin thuh ToE
What is being called ignorance on my part is really disagreement. You all like to think it's ignorance to object to the ToE. And when you disagree with a theory, when you subscribe to a different paradigm about scientific things, there's no way to avoid defining things differently. I do try to be clear and for the most part I do think I succeed but obviously not well enough for some people who just don't want to consider a different way of looking at things.
I'm not ignorant of the idea of speciation, I don't think what's called by that name is rightly called by that name. And what I've written about it that Percy called nonsensical isn't nonsensical at all, it's just Percy's difficulty reading simple English, or his determination not to understand. I believe I've given evidence for this thought in examples of animals in the wild that have no problem interbreeding but are related to each other about the same as dog breeds are related to each other, which also can interbreed.
Domestic breeding is a good model for what happens in evolution, especially loss of genetic diversity from population to population but also even in its lack of "speciation."
I'm not ignorant of the idea of environment-driven adaptation, I just have the chutzpah to think adaptation is usually genetically driven and I think the Pod Mrcaru lizards are one piece of evidence of that.
I'm not ignorant of the idea of fitness-driven evolution either, I just think it doesn't happen much.
I'm not ignorant of fossil evidence for evolution from species to species but the fact that trilobites and coelacanths exist in so many adjacent supposed "time periods" while reptiles and mammals were buried only one "time period" apart, is evidence against it. Not to mention that microevolution occurs in observable time, making millions of years utterly ridiculous. And of course the mere fact of sedimentary layers containing fossils is itself evidence against time periods and for the Flood.
I'm not ignorant of the idea that mutations are the source of genetic variability, I just think it's utterly screamingly ridiculous given their record of producing thousands of genetic diseases, and besides it's absolutely unnecessary given the elegant original design of DNA.
I'm not threatening to leave, I'm just not going to read insulting posts any more.
Cheers
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 873 by PaulK, posted 08-27-2017 12:21 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 874 by Percy, posted 08-27-2017 2:51 PM Faith has replied
 Message 875 by JonF, posted 08-27-2017 3:50 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 877 by Taq, posted 08-28-2017 1:20 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 878 of 908 (818438)
08-28-2017 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 876 by Taq
08-28-2017 11:10 AM


Re: What Really Happens
You are claiming that selection will lead to a population that is homozygous for the allele A. I have already shown that mutations can produce allele B which is then selected for. Over time, this results in the population going from homozygous A, heterozygous AB, and the homozygous B. Once you have homozygous B, a mutation can occur to produce C, and the process repeats.
It is logically unimpeachable that this process can continue and continue and continue. Evolution never stops.
As so often is the case when discussing mutations, you make it sound as if they just come along exactly as needed to further the claims of the ToE. Just how much time are you imagining for this scenario to unfold? And have you ever seen it happen anywhere perchance?
Given that it shouldn't take long at all, a matter of years even, to get a new variety or race from a smallish number of founders (Pod Mrcaru), more time of course with a larger founding number but still within a human time frame, what's your estimate how likely it is that your scenario will occur at all in that time period?
Also, you're talking change in ONE allele, so you have to be assuming that particular change is going to make a big difference in the new population? If you have to add other changes in other genes your odds are going to diminish too.
Meanwhile ordinary recombination of a new set of gene frequencies from the genomes of the founders will bring out new characteristics in the new population within years without mutations.
I haven't said such a random selection will produce a homozygous A in one population split though if the numbers are right even that could happen. I'm talking about a trend through a number of population splits that will ULTIMATELY show the loss of genetic diversity that has to occur for the new phenotypes to emerge, because this is the only way you get new phenotypes, which domestic breeding exemplifies. This random selection will in any case change the look of the population for sure just from the new combinations, and over some generations probably will increase the homozygosity in the population. Certainly will in subsequent populations if it's like a ring species that keeps sending out founders for new daughter populations.
Not only are mutations unnecessary to this process but they couldn't possibly occur as needed and their usual effect is destructive anyway rather than beneficial.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 876 by Taq, posted 08-28-2017 11:10 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 881 by Taq, posted 08-28-2017 2:09 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 882 by PaulK, posted 08-28-2017 2:10 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 883 by JonF, posted 08-28-2017 2:41 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 884 by Percy, posted 08-28-2017 3:53 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 879 of 908 (818439)
08-28-2017 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 877 by Taq
08-28-2017 1:20 PM


Re: Sumry uv Sum uv thuh evdince agin thuh ToE
This is an insulting post so I'm ignoring it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 877 by Taq, posted 08-28-2017 1:20 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 880 by Taq, posted 08-28-2017 2:01 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 887 by Percy, posted 08-28-2017 5:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 888 of 908 (818506)
08-29-2017 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 874 by Percy
08-27-2017 2:51 PM


Re: Sumry uv Sum uv thuh evdince agin thuh ToE
Genetically driven adaptation? How would that work, pray tell?
Been explained many times. Phenotypic changes occur as a result of random new gene frequencies. Lizards get big heads and jaws just from such random changes accumulating in their new population. The food doesn't drive the change, but the change causes the lizards to gravitate to food that their new jaws can handle. The test of the theory would be whether the kind of food their parent population ate is also available on their new island; and it most likely is because when they first landed there they were identical to the lizards of the parent population; it would have taken some generations for the new head and jaws and digestive system to emerge.
As I read further in your insulting unintelligent post I realize that if you'd bothered to follow anything I've been arguing at length on this subject you wouldn't have all the silly objections and questions you have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 874 by Percy, posted 08-27-2017 2:51 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 890 by PaulK, posted 08-30-2017 12:12 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 891 by Percy, posted 08-30-2017 8:08 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 889 of 908 (818508)
08-29-2017 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 885 by Taq
08-28-2017 4:16 PM


Re: Modern dog breeds required mutations
The fact that some traits are caused by mutations proves what exactly?
Faith writes:
I'm not ignorant of the idea that mutations are the source of genetic variability, I just think it's utterly screamingly ridiculous given their record of producing thousands of genetic diseases, and besides it's absolutely unnecessary given the elegant original design of DNA
The very rare mutation in a dog breed proves what again? Nothing that contradicts what I wrote above. In fact the mutants are contrasted with "wild alleles" which must refer to the originals I'm talking about. Of course a mutation would do something like cause a "smooshed" face which is basically a destructive effect even if silly people like it. Smooshed-face dogs have a hard time breathing, it's not a desirable condition. And I do suspect that some mutations are really the chemical reconstruction of a former lost allele, maybe that became junk DNA. Alleles are, after all, just a string of chemical codes, there could be some principle by which they recur from time to time. Which doesn't change the fact that the vast majority aren't beneficial.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 885 by Taq, posted 08-28-2017 4:16 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 892 by Percy, posted 08-30-2017 8:24 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 893 by Taq, posted 08-30-2017 10:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
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