Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,807 Year: 3,064/9,624 Month: 909/1,588 Week: 92/223 Day: 3/17 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Decline And Fall Of The American Empire
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 170 (818558)
08-30-2017 10:55 AM


This morning, after reading about the likely economic impact of the Houston tropical storm and watching our country make a stupid decision to continue to commit to outlandish spending(in Afghanistan) even as our debts inch ever higher, I read a couple of dated articles both with the same title.
The first one, found in The Nation was written in 2010, right after the economic crises of 2007.
quote:
A soft landing for America 40 years from now? Don’t bet on it. The demise of the United States as the global superpower could come far more quickly than anyone imagines. If Washington is dreaming of 2040 or 2050 as the end of the American Century, a more realistic assessment of domestic and global trends suggests that in 2025, just 15 years from now, it could all be over except for the shouting.
We have recovered from that crises just barely, and are likely close to another one, in my opinion. Despite bringing up the problem of the demise of the US dollar as global reserve currency, nobody here took me seriously, but the article mentions that as a potential chink in our national armor. I don't fully understand the concept, but can intuitively fathom the implications.
The second article I read, with the same title as this thread, was published in The Guardian in 2011.
quote:
America in 2011 is Rome in 200AD or Britain on the eve of the first world war: an empire at the zenith of its power but with cracks beginning to show.
The experience of both Rome and Britain suggests that it is hard to stop the rot once it has set in, so here are the a few of the warning signs of trouble ahead: military overstretch, a widening gulf between rich and poor, a hollowed-out economy, citizens using debt to live beyond their means, and once-effective policies no longer working.
The first article warns that once an empire loses its position it is psychologically devasting for the populace. Donald Trumps egotistical run seemingly marks our last gasp at the illusion of something we thought we were or should be but clearly are not.
As I head towards retirement, I wonder how tough it will get. I can't really count on anything except God and my fellow citizens. There seem to be no more promises. Comments?
Edited by Phat, : spelling

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Stile, posted 08-30-2017 11:12 AM Phat has replied
 Message 3 by Taq, posted 08-30-2017 11:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 08-30-2017 3:26 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 4 of 170 (818567)
08-30-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Stile
08-30-2017 11:12 AM


Decline and Rising Costs Of Living
I agree with you. I don't think it is important, as long as costs don't increase too dramatically. The evidence seems to show otherwise. In addition, the first article that I read, written in 2011, predicted the basic situation we now have.
quote:
Riding a political tide of disillusionment and despair, a far-right patriot captures the presidency with thundering rhetoric, demanding respect for American authority and threatening military retaliation or economic reprisal. The world pays next to no attention as the American Century ends in silence.
Sound like whats going on now?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Stile, posted 08-30-2017 11:12 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Stile, posted 08-30-2017 12:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 170 (818578)
08-30-2017 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
08-30-2017 3:26 PM


Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
The American "Century" ended in 1963.
That is too early according to most analysts. They peg 2003--the year the gulf war started---as the final nail in the coffin. We wiped out trillions of dollars and continue to do so.
This is, to me, what the Fall really means. No secure retirement. No social programs for an aging population who no longer contributes to the tax base. A growing population getting older, mind you.
The main issue, as I have tried to explain before, is that once the US Dollar is no longer the global reserve currency, we can no longer print money to pay our debts and prices on oil imports will rise exponentially.
The US has long enjoyed an artificially constructed advantage which will soon be totally gone. With an aging, uneducated population, we will be ravaged economically.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 08-30-2017 3:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 08-30-2017 4:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 12 by Taq, posted 08-30-2017 6:19 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 28 by nwr, posted 08-31-2017 8:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 170 (818630)
08-31-2017 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
08-31-2017 10:03 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
It's time that we started taking the Gross Domestic Product to mean something all in the US should share.
What do you mean? Sounds like another bill to me....

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 10:03 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 12:53 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 170 (818647)
08-31-2017 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
08-31-2017 12:53 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Gross Domestic Product.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 12:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 7:26 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 29 of 170 (818678)
08-31-2017 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
08-31-2017 7:26 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
the total value of goods produced and services provided in a country during one year. So why do you want us to all share it? To me, it sounds as if we are also responsible for it...which seems like a bill somehow.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 7:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 9:19 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 31 of 170 (818680)
08-31-2017 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
08-31-2017 9:19 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Websters writes:
1 the monetary worth of something : market price
2 a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged
3 relative worth, utility, or importance a good value at the price the value of base stealing in baseball had nothing of value to say
4 something (such as a principle or quality) intrinsically valuable or desirable
sought material values instead of human values W. H. Jones
5 a numerical quantity that is assigned or is determined by calculation or measurement let x take on positive values a value for the age of the earth
Im guessing that #2 is the one we are discussing.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 9:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 9:37 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 33 of 170 (818682)
08-31-2017 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
08-31-2017 9:37 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Human Labor.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 9:37 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 10:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 35 by jar, posted 09-01-2017 7:00 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 36 of 170 (818704)
09-01-2017 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
09-01-2017 7:00 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
The factories that produce the goods, as well as the raw materials that become the goods themselves.
Or...the services offered, such as barbers, bakers, butchers, etc.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 09-01-2017 7:00 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 09-01-2017 8:05 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 38 of 170 (818706)
09-01-2017 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by jar
09-01-2017 8:05 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
im thinking.....what about the ones who buy our products? What value do they give us for them?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 09-01-2017 8:05 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 09-01-2017 9:02 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 44 of 170 (818739)
09-01-2017 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by ringo
09-01-2017 1:29 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
In fact, it's society that determines who owns what.
Although an individual with a good Attorney can school society on the legalities. Society itself has no Attorney to look after their social interests.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 09-01-2017 1:29 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 09-02-2017 11:42 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 45 of 170 (818754)
09-02-2017 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
09-01-2017 9:02 AM


Re: what about the least of these?
yes, but that isn't the whole story. I read an article in The Atlantic that talked about the GDP as an outmoded measurement.
quote:
By itself the GDP tells very little. Simply a measure of total output (the dollar value of finished goods and services), it assumes that everything produced is by definition goods." It does not distinguish between costs and benefits, between productive and destructive activities, or between sustainable and unsustainable ones. The nation's central measure of well-being works like a calculating machine that adds but cannot subtract. It treats everything that happens in the market as a gain for humanity, while ignoring everything that happens outside the realm of monetized exchange, regardless of the importance to well-being.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 09-01-2017 9:02 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 09-02-2017 7:18 AM Phat has replied
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 09-02-2017 11:46 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 170 (818761)
09-02-2017 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by jar
09-02-2017 7:18 AM


Re: what about the least of these?
I would think that in some way they do. But how could it be measured?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 09-02-2017 7:18 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 09-02-2017 7:51 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 49 of 170 (818763)
09-02-2017 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
09-02-2017 7:51 AM


Re: what about the least of these?
Of course. Dont people have this right?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 09-02-2017 7:51 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 09-02-2017 8:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 56 of 170 (818920)
09-04-2017 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by ringo
09-02-2017 12:05 PM


Does All Money Originate From Labor?
The subject of money is appropriate for this thread since the science/fact/reality behind it is itself a fascinating yet disturbing sub-topic.
In my opinion, the Fall Of The American Empire will be punctuated by a major economic event. I can only hope that we are still able to stay on our computers and talk with one another when this event ultimately happens.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by ringo, posted 09-02-2017 12:05 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 09-05-2017 11:42 AM Phat has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024