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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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In case there's any doubt that President Trump's Tuesday comments were an endorsement of white racism, supremacy and nationalism, David Duke endorsed his comments on Twitter:
quote: --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
From As he coddles neo-Nazis, Trump’s political isolation increases:
quote: --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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As I said, we should all condemn violence. The Unite the Right protesters are wrong because their message of hate is wrong, not because of any violence they may or may not have committed. People should be clear what they're defending when they defend the Unite the Right protesters: their right to be safe during a peaceful protest, or their message.
When Trump said there were "Some very fine people on both sides," who on the Unite the Right side was he talking about? Who among the white nationalists, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, KKK, militias and any others bearing a message of hate were "very fine people?" --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar. Edited by Percy, : Typo.
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
New Cat's Eye writes: That point is: A terrible group, in this case neo-nazis, joining your side ... Is this a hypothetical, or something you're claiming was substantively the case in the violence in Charlottesville?
Yeah, how about we just don't start any punching? And how about we all stop advocating violence against people that we think are members of a group? I'm not sure why this is part of a reply to a message that said, "We should condemn all violence..." We must make sure that the important message isn't lost by Trump's obfuscation: messages of hate must be unambiguously condemned and opposed. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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New Cat's Eye writes: A bit of both, I suppose. There is a point of principle: If you have 10 people and 1 nazi shows up, you do not, actually, have 11 nazis. It was not the situation in Charlottesville of Unite the Right protestors mixing in to a larger group protesting statue removal. This is a long video, but just watch the first minute. We're talking about Charlottesville and what happened there, not some scenario you're making up:
If you have a group of white supremacists, white nationalists, Nazis, KKK and militia chanting, "The Jews will not replace us" and "Whose streets? Our streets!" and so forth, and you join them, guess what it means? You're one of them. You're like Trump, trying to provide cover for groups with messages of hate, division and exclusion. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
From The Hill:
quote: Why on earth would this bombastic, lying, equivocating buffon think he's earned any trust? Oh, wait, of course, he's also delusional. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
New Cat's Eye writes: It was not the situation in Charlottesville of Unite the Right protestors mixing in to a larger group protesting statue removal. Sure,... Good, but reread your Message 1114 that I was replying to. Across several paragraphs it was about bad guys showing up to make good guys look bad. You concluded that message by again touching on violence, so I'll repeat that of course we should always be against violence from any side, whether white supremacists, white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, militia, or antifa.
If you have a group of white supremacists, white nationalists, Nazis, KKK and militia chanting, "The Jews will not replace us" and "Whose streets? Our streets!" and so forth, and you join them, guess what it means? You're one of them. Sure, but if you're not one of those and they join you, that does not make you one of them. You just agreed that Charlottesville wasn't a case of bad guys showing up to make good guys look bad, and now you're going back on yourself.
You're like Trump, trying to provide cover for groups with messages of hate, division and exclusion. Ha! That's so stupid I don't think you're even reading my posts. Don't troll me bro. How you look to others isn't for you to say. If you believe the message of Charlottesville is that messages of hate and exclusion should be called out for what they are then be clear about it. What I see is a nod toward opposing Nazis, then a lot of argument about bad guys making good guys look bad. You *are* pretty much communicating the same message as Trump. If you don't want to look like him, don't join him. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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New Cat's Eye writes: I'm not going to get into the specifics of Charlottesville until we can establish the principle first. I was never trying to get further into the specifics of Charlottesville. I think violence on any side is deplorable, but we shouldn't let the violence distract us from the true message of Charlottesville: that groups promoting hate and bigotry and exclusion should be opposed wherever they appear. What's so hard about saying that you oppose such groups that you have to invent obstacles to saying it?
Your side... In this discussion I don't really have a side beyond being opposed to those promoting messages of hate, bigotry and exclusion. Why do you think we're on opposite sides? You seem to have painted yourself into a bit of a corner, but I don't think we're on opposite sides.
The sentiment from your side is still that if I'm not talking about FUCKING NAZIS then I cannot be talking about anyone that protested the statue removal at Charlottesville - I can't agree to that. Uh, no. My own personal feeling is that you're equivocating about condemning those responsible for the hate-motivated demonstrations in Charlottesville. Instead you're talking about confusing good guys with bad guys.
Yes, all of the white supremacists are stupid assholes that we should all oppose and tell to fuck off. I'm just not willing to assume that every single person who wanted to protest the removal of the statue was a white supremacists. Not something I ever suggested. But it is very hard to accept that anyone marching with the Unite the Right protestors didn't know who they were marching with and what the message was. It's not like they weren't chanting and carrying signs.
Which seems to be all a part of the trick... There's no trick. If you like your foot in your mouth, well, you put it there, so keep it there if that's what you want.
Apparently, I can't even question that mentality without being accused of supporting the bad guys. That "mentality" is not something you got from anything *I* wrote, but what's apparently true is that you have preconditions (oh, excuse me, "a point of principle") before you'll condemn messages of hate.
Considering this grouping, though, I have a question: What, exactly, is a "white nationalist"? A white nationalist is someone who wants the country to be dominated by whites in terms of governance and culture.
Well if that's how you want to play: you're coming off as being just as bigoted as antifa. Well now you're just being weird, plus Antifa is anti-fascist and anti-racist, not bigoted. I of course oppose Antifa because of their willingness to resort to violence.
You'd rather presume that everyone that you think might be in a group is definitely a bad person that we all should hate, and I'm not willing to be an asshole like that. Actually I was saying something else and didn't take a stand on that issue. My message is that you're using it as an excuse to avoid committing yourself about opposing groups promoting messages of hate. Congratulations on not prejudging anyone, I agree it's an admirable quality. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
This Fox News report on a Fox News Poll contains the following tidbits, quoted verbatim:
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Has there ever been a more cruel President than Trump? Today Trump ended the 'Dreamers' Program. This can be added to the end of a long list of cruel acts:
I'm sure I've left stuff out. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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The entire video is worth watching, but I've positioned it at the most important part near the end where Sanders describes the greatest dangers to our democracy:
In other news Trump has reached across the aisle to make a deal with Democrats to keep the government open: Trump Backs Democrats to Seal Stopgap Budget Deal --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Well, that was a confused and argumentative hash. Let me see what sense of it I can make.
riVeRraT writes: That's a good one, the socialist is going to explain to us the greatest dangers to our democracy. Do you even realize how lunacy that is?... I agree with about 70% of what Sanders says. So what Sanders says is lunacy, but you agree with 70% of it?
We are a Republic, not a democracy. In this context the distinction is without relevance.
But that other 30% is way off, enough to destroy America. He talks about the Koch brothers (who I don't like) and can't see that what he described is happening in his own party. Yes, of course, but it should not be the law of the land that the rich can buy elections.
Not only that, it is happening to him. It's the same old tired rhetoric, and he's too stupid to realize it happened to him by his own party, or he is being paid off to act that way. This is just nonsense. The Democrats *and* Bernie Sanders are both on record as opposing the "candidates for sale" ruling of the Supreme Court.
No one owns Trump. True. He's crude and impulsive and cruel and the embodiment of chaos. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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This can be found at many news sources, here's the NYT article: At U.N., Trump Threatens to ‘Totally Destroy North Korea’. Here's the key quote:
quote: North Korea does represent a significant threat, but Trump's words are the opposite of statesmanship and statecraft. The man does not belong in office. He is temperamentally unfit, unhinged one might almost say. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Speaking at a political rally in Huntsville, Alabama, Fake President Donald Trump said:
quote: Some might have noticed the non sequitur, "People like yourselves turn on television...leave the stadium,", but anyway, here's a list of player reactions on Twitter:
quote: NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell issued this statement:
quote: Eric Winston, NFL Players Association president, made this comment:
quote: Fake President Trump also managed to alienate the NBA. The Golden State Warriors were last years NBA champions, and typically the championship team is invited to the White House to meet the President. Stephen Curry decided not to go, so Trump disinvited the entire team:
quote: From Trump Withdraws White House Invite To NBA Champions:
quote: The only people Fake Trump can't seem to offend are his core base. They must think this is the fiction of reality TV rather than the real world. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Fix Eric Winston role.
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Taq writes: Pretty low, IMHO. The NK regime knows that war would mean an end to their rule, so they will avoid it at all costs. I agree that the risk of war is pretty low, and would add that North Korea and China aren't the only countries with strong motivations for avoiding war. North Korea has the 4th largest army in the world, and one of the first casualties of war would be Seoul and much of South Korea. South Korea has the 11th largest economy in the world, and the 27th largest population. War for South Korea, despite the protection of the United States, would be a disaster. --Percy
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