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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Percy
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Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 1100 of 4573 (817374)
08-17-2017 9:01 AM


In case there's any doubt...
In case there's any doubt that President Trump's Tuesday comments were an endorsement of white racism, supremacy and nationalism, David Duke endorsed his comments on Twitter:
quote:
Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa https://t.co/tTESdV4LP0
David Duke (@DrDavidDuke) August 15, 2017
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1101 of 4573 (817379)
08-17-2017 9:22 AM


Apropos comment from the Los Angeles Times
From As he coddles neo-Nazis, Trump’s political isolation increases:
quote:
[Trump's] poll numbers hit a new low this week 34%, according to Gallup. Given that a quarter of Americans consistently prove their looniness by subscribing to preposterous conspiracy theories like birtherism and Pizzagate, that poll number indicates Trump is getting ever closer to being the president only of fools and fascists.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 1102 by jar, posted 08-17-2017 9:31 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 1108 of 4573 (817537)
08-18-2017 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1103 by New Cat's Eye
08-17-2017 10:56 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
As I said, we should all condemn violence. The Unite the Right protesters are wrong because their message of hate is wrong, not because of any violence they may or may not have committed. People should be clear what they're defending when they defend the Unite the Right protesters: their right to be safe during a peaceful protest, or their message.
When Trump said there were "Some very fine people on both sides," who on the Unite the Right side was he talking about? Who among the white nationalists, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, KKK, militias and any others bearing a message of hate were "very fine people?"
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
Edited by Percy, : Typo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1103 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-17-2017 10:56 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1109 of 4573 (817538)
08-18-2017 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1106 by New Cat's Eye
08-17-2017 10:40 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye writes:
That point is: A terrible group, in this case neo-nazis, joining your side ...
Is this a hypothetical, or something you're claiming was substantively the case in the violence in Charlottesville?
Yeah, how about we just don't start any punching? And how about we all stop advocating violence against people that we think are members of a group?
I'm not sure why this is part of a reply to a message that said, "We should condemn all violence..."
We must make sure that the important message isn't lost by Trump's obfuscation: messages of hate must be unambiguously condemned and opposed.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1106 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-17-2017 10:40 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2017 10:29 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 1121 of 4573 (817660)
08-19-2017 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye
08-18-2017 10:29 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye writes:
A bit of both, I suppose. There is a point of principle: If you have 10 people and 1 nazi shows up, you do not, actually, have 11 nazis.
It was not the situation in Charlottesville of Unite the Right protestors mixing in to a larger group protesting statue removal. This is a long video, but just watch the first minute. We're talking about Charlottesville and what happened there, not some scenario you're making up:
If you have a group of white supremacists, white nationalists, Nazis, KKK and militia chanting, "The Jews will not replace us" and "Whose streets? Our streets!" and so forth, and you join them, guess what it means? You're one of them.
You're like Trump, trying to provide cover for groups with messages of hate, division and exclusion.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2017 10:29 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1122 by Phat, posted 08-19-2017 10:53 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1128 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-22-2017 2:20 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1125 of 4573 (817859)
08-21-2017 9:00 AM


Trump on Afghanistan
From The Hill:
quote:
President Trump reportedly plans Monday to ask Americans to trust him when he addresses the nation Monday evening on his plans for Afghanistan and South Asia.
Why on earth would this bombastic, lying, equivocating buffon think he's earned any trust? Oh, wait, of course, he's also delusional.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1134 of 4573 (818016)
08-22-2017 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1128 by New Cat's Eye
08-22-2017 2:20 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye writes:
It was not the situation in Charlottesville of Unite the Right protestors mixing in to a larger group protesting statue removal.
Sure,...
Good, but reread your Message 1114 that I was replying to. Across several paragraphs it was about bad guys showing up to make good guys look bad.
You concluded that message by again touching on violence, so I'll repeat that of course we should always be against violence from any side, whether white supremacists, white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, militia, or antifa.
If you have a group of white supremacists, white nationalists, Nazis, KKK and militia chanting, "The Jews will not replace us" and "Whose streets? Our streets!" and so forth, and you join them, guess what it means? You're one of them.
Sure, but if you're not one of those and they join you, that does not make you one of them.
You just agreed that Charlottesville wasn't a case of bad guys showing up to make good guys look bad, and now you're going back on yourself.
You're like Trump, trying to provide cover for groups with messages of hate, division and exclusion.
Ha! That's so stupid I don't think you're even reading my posts. Don't troll me bro.
How you look to others isn't for you to say. If you believe the message of Charlottesville is that messages of hate and exclusion should be called out for what they are then be clear about it. What I see is a nod toward opposing Nazis, then a lot of argument about bad guys making good guys look bad. You *are* pretty much communicating the same message as Trump. If you don't want to look like him, don't join him.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1128 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-22-2017 2:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1150 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2017 12:22 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 1152 of 4573 (818122)
08-23-2017 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1150 by New Cat's Eye
08-23-2017 12:22 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
New Cat's Eye writes:
I'm not going to get into the specifics of Charlottesville until we can establish the principle first.
I was never trying to get further into the specifics of Charlottesville. I think violence on any side is deplorable, but we shouldn't let the violence distract us from the true message of Charlottesville: that groups promoting hate and bigotry and exclusion should be opposed wherever they appear.
What's so hard about saying that you oppose such groups that you have to invent obstacles to saying it?
Your side...
In this discussion I don't really have a side beyond being opposed to those promoting messages of hate, bigotry and exclusion. Why do you think we're on opposite sides? You seem to have painted yourself into a bit of a corner, but I don't think we're on opposite sides.
The sentiment from your side is still that if I'm not talking about FUCKING NAZIS then I cannot be talking about anyone that protested the statue removal at Charlottesville - I can't agree to that.
Uh, no. My own personal feeling is that you're equivocating about condemning those responsible for the hate-motivated demonstrations in Charlottesville. Instead you're talking about confusing good guys with bad guys.
Yes, all of the white supremacists are stupid assholes that we should all oppose and tell to fuck off. I'm just not willing to assume that every single person who wanted to protest the removal of the statue was a white supremacists.
Not something I ever suggested. But it is very hard to accept that anyone marching with the Unite the Right protestors didn't know who they were marching with and what the message was. It's not like they weren't chanting and carrying signs.
Which seems to be all a part of the trick...
There's no trick. If you like your foot in your mouth, well, you put it there, so keep it there if that's what you want.
Apparently, I can't even question that mentality without being accused of supporting the bad guys.
That "mentality" is not something you got from anything *I* wrote, but what's apparently true is that you have preconditions (oh, excuse me, "a point of principle") before you'll condemn messages of hate.
Considering this grouping, though, I have a question: What, exactly, is a "white nationalist"?
A white nationalist is someone who wants the country to be dominated by whites in terms of governance and culture.
Well if that's how you want to play: you're coming off as being just as bigoted as antifa.
Well now you're just being weird, plus Antifa is anti-fascist and anti-racist, not bigoted. I of course oppose Antifa because of their willingness to resort to violence.
You'd rather presume that everyone that you think might be in a group is definitely a bad person that we all should hate, and I'm not willing to be an asshole like that.
Actually I was saying something else and didn't take a stand on that issue. My message is that you're using it as an excuse to avoid committing yourself about opposing groups promoting messages of hate. Congratulations on not prejudging anyone, I agree it's an admirable quality.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1150 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2017 12:22 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1154 by NoNukes, posted 08-24-2017 11:46 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1172 of 4573 (818635)
08-31-2017 12:37 PM


Fox News Poll: Trump tearing country apart
This Fox News report on a Fox News Poll contains the following tidbits, quoted verbatim:
  • Voter satisfaction with the direction of the nation is down by double digits, as a majority says President Donald Trump is tearing the country apart.
  • The number of voters happy with how things are going in the country is down 10 percentage points since April and stands at just 35 percent.
  • [Trump's] job ratings are increasingly negative -- and 56 percent feel Trump’s tearing the country apart, versus 33 percent who say he’s drawing the country together.
  • About two-thirds of Republicans feel Trump is drawing the country together (68 percent), while 15 percent say tearing the country apart and 18 percent are unsure. Nearly all Democrats (93 percent) and over half of independents (59 percent) say Trump is tearing the country apart.
  • In addition, a record 55 percent of voters disapprove of the job he’s doing as president, while 41 percent approve. That’s a net negative by 14 points and his worst score to-date.
  • Since[February 2017] he’s lost the most ground with conservatives (down 7 points), Republican men (-9 points), and whites without a college degree (-9 points).
  • His worst marks are on race relations (33-61 percent), where disapproval outweighs approval by 28 points.
  • Overall, by a 70-13 percent margin, voters think Trump dislikes the media more than white supremacists.
  • With the controversy heating up across the country, voters by a 2-to-1 margin think Confederate monuments and statues should stay up (61 percent) rather than be taken down (29 percent).
  • Fifty-eight percent of Clinton voters say they’re losing sleep since Trump took office. On the other hand, Trump voters say they’re sleeping better these days (62 percent).
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 1173 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 5:52 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 1186 of 4573 (819053)
09-05-2017 2:45 PM


The Cruelest President
Has there ever been a more cruel President than Trump? Today Trump ended the 'Dreamers' Program. This can be added to the end of a long list of cruel acts:
  • Attracted the praise of hate groups.
  • Increased deportations.
  • Worked incessantly to take away health insurance from those least able to afford it.
  • Working for tax cuts for the wealthy at the expense of the poor.
  • Attempted to ban Muslim travel to the US.
  • Encouraged police to abuse suspects being arrested.
  • Declared an end to transgender members of the military.
  • Opposed transgender bathroom policies.
  • Left Guam out in the cold as he engaged in escalating brinksmanship with North Korea.
  • Made our air and water less safe.
  • Holding a one cent sale on our national parks.
  • Behaves like an execrable human being to almost all he comes in contact with.
  • Treats truth with callous disregard. Never in any administration has any president lied so often and so excessively.
I'm sure I've left stuff out.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 1187 by jar, posted 09-05-2017 3:36 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 1190 of 4573 (819153)
09-07-2017 10:45 AM


Bernie Sanders on The Late Show
The entire video is worth watching, but I've positioned it at the most important part near the end where Sanders describes the greatest dangers to our democracy:
In other news Trump has reached across the aisle to make a deal with Democrats to keep the government open: Trump Backs Democrats to Seal Stopgap Budget Deal
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 1191 by NoNukes, posted 09-07-2017 3:57 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1193 by riVeRraT, posted 09-07-2017 6:27 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(5)
Message 1196 of 4573 (819253)
09-08-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1193 by riVeRraT
09-07-2017 6:27 PM


Re: Bernie Sanders on The Late Show
Well, that was a confused and argumentative hash. Let me see what sense of it I can make.
riVeRraT writes:
That's a good one, the socialist is going to explain to us the greatest dangers to our democracy. Do you even realize how lunacy that is?
...
I agree with about 70% of what Sanders says.
So what Sanders says is lunacy, but you agree with 70% of it?
We are a Republic, not a democracy.
In this context the distinction is without relevance.
But that other 30% is way off, enough to destroy America. He talks about the Koch brothers (who I don't like) and can't see that what he described is happening in his own party.
Yes, of course, but it should not be the law of the land that the rich can buy elections.
Not only that, it is happening to him. It's the same old tired rhetoric, and he's too stupid to realize it happened to him by his own party, or he is being paid off to act that way.
This is just nonsense. The Democrats *and* Bernie Sanders are both on record as opposing the "candidates for sale" ruling of the Supreme Court.
No one owns Trump.
True. He's crude and impulsive and cruel and the embodiment of chaos.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1193 by riVeRraT, posted 09-07-2017 6:27 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(6)
Message 1200 of 4573 (820379)
09-19-2017 8:31 PM


Trump at the UN
This can be found at many news sources, here's the NYT article: At U.N., Trump Threatens to ‘Totally Destroy North Korea’. Here's the key quote:
quote:
No nation on Earth has an interest in seeing this band of criminals arm itself with nuclear weapons and missiles The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. Rocket Man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.
North Korea does represent a significant threat, but Trump's words are the opposite of statesmanship and statecraft. The man does not belong in office. He is temperamentally unfit, unhinged one might almost say.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 1201 by 1.61803, posted 09-20-2017 1:06 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 1203 of 4573 (820587)
09-23-2017 3:48 PM


Fake President Donald Trump Takes On NFL Players
Speaking at a political rally in Huntsville, Alabama, Fake President Donald Trump said:
quote:
Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, "Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. Out. He's fired! He's fired! Fired!"
[crowd]USA...USA...USA...
You know, some owner's going to do that. He's gonna say, "That guy that disrepects our flag, he's fired." And that owner...they don't know it, they don't it...they're friends of mine, many of them, they don't know it, they'll be the most popular person, for a week, they'll be the most popular person in this country, 'cause that's a total disrespect of our heritage, that's a total disrespect of everything that we stand for, okay? Everything that we stand for.
And I know that we have freedoms and we have freedom of choice and many, many different freedoms, but you know what, it's still totally disrespectful.
And you know, when the NFL ratings are down massively...massively...the NFL ratings are down massively. Now the number one reason happens to be that they like what's happening on...you know...with yours truly. They like what's happening.
Just because, today, if you hit too hard, right, they hit too hard..."15 yards, throw him out of the game." They had that last week, I watched for a couple of minutes, two guys, just really beautiful tackle...BOOM, 15 yards, the referee gets on television, his wife is sitting at home, she's so proud of him. They're ruining the game. Right? They're ruining the game.
Hey, look, that's what they want to do, they want to hit. Okay? They want to hit. But it is hurting the game. But you know what's hurting the game more than that? People like yourselves turn on television, and you see those people taking the knee when they're playing our great national anthem. The only thing you could do better if you see it, even if it's one player, leave the stadium. I guarantee things will stop, things will stop, just pick up and leave. Pick up and leave. Not the same game anymore anyway.
Some might have noticed the non sequitur, "People like yourselves turn on television...leave the stadium,", but anyway, here's a list of player reactions on Twitter:
quote:
We'll "stick to football" when we see progress. Our Nations leader can't even set a good example of how it looks to be a great American. -Davante Adams
...
Only validates @Kaepernick7 bringing social injustice to light, he kneeled hoping it'd bring attention to what he believed in... Has it not? -cameron jordan
...
The behavior of the President is unacceptable and needs to be addressed. If you do not Condemn this divisive Rhetoric you are Condoning it!! -Richard Sherman
...
Continue to use your voices and your platforms for racial equality and to stop injustices in our communities. This is bigger than us!!! -Michael Thomas
...
Ppl said it was disrespectful not going to the White House..I’m sure they are quiet about us being called sons of bitches -Devin&Jason McCourty
...
I'm a full supporter of the Flag & This country! Trust Me! But this can't be real! -Rishard Matthews
...
I Fully believe and have trust in this country, whoever is leading it, & for damn sure the Flag! -Rishard Matthews
...
It is a sad day when the #POTUS seeks to disregard and punish American citizens for peacefully exercising their constitutional rights. -Benjamin Watson
...
Does anyone tell trump to stick to politics, like they tell us to stick to sports? Smh. -Eric Ebron
...
What an emphatic response, where was this passion in response to Charlottesville...🤔 -Max Garcia
...
It's a shame and disgrace when you have the President of the US calling citizens of the country sons of a bitches. -Bishop Sankey
...
Smh & all because @Kaepernick7 is exercising his right as an American citizen to protest. -Bishop Sankey
...
Trump stay in ur place... football have nothing to do wit u smh -Zach Brown
...
Trump!! 😔😔😔😔😔😔😔 -Thomas Davis
...
Stick to sports boy... Sit down and do what your told. Say or do something we don’t like and your fired Well I hate to break it to ya... -Chris Conley
...
When will people learn that fear won’t make someone sit down. It quite possibly will make more stand up for what they believe in. -Chris Conley
...
So the BLACK NFL PLAYERS are SON OF A BITCH now WOW -Chris Baker
...
Can't wait to hear the response from @nflcommish @NFLPA @NFL #BLACKLIVESMATTER -Chris Baker
...
#Kaepernick we riding with you bro ✊🏾 -Reggie Bush
...
Str8 Joke ! We will overcome ! Jay z right on point ✊🏾 -Desean Jackson
...
😳😳😳 yo this man is wildin’!!!!! -Emmanuel Acho
...
So Trumpster is more mad at "son of a bi!@&" athletes than he was the neo-nazi's in Charlottesville. How am I not surprised? -Lance Moore
...
Why people think pro atheletes are put on this earth just to play sports??? Baffles me! -Jalen Reeves-Maybin
...
Something is really wrong with him. It's 2017 and this guy is really the president of the United States! He's not my president! ✊🏾✊️✊🏻#Unity -Earl Wolff
...
This guy really the president. 🤦🏿‍♂️ -D.J. Humphries
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell issued this statement:
quote:
The NFL and our players are at our best when we help create a sense of unity in our country and our culture. There is no better example than the amazing response from our clubs and players to the terrible natural disasters we've experienced over the last month. Divisive comments like these demonstrate an unfortunate lack of respect for the NFL, our great game and all of our players, and a failure to understand the overwhelming force for good our clubs and players represent in our communities.
Eric Winston, NFL Players Association president, made this comment:
quote:
Our players are men who are great philanthropists, activists and community leaders who stand up for each other and their beliefs.
I am extremely disappointed in the statements made by the President last night. The comments were a slap in the face to the civil rights heroes of the past and present, soldiers who have spilled blood in countless wars to uphold the values of this great nation and American people of all races, ethnicities, genders and sexual orientations who seek civil progress as a means to make this country, and this world, a better place.
The divisiveness we are experiencing in this country has created gridlock in our political system, given voice to extreme, fringe beliefs and paralyzed our progress as a nation. Divisiveness breeds divisiveness, but NFL players have proven to unify peopl in our country's toughest moments and we will continue to do so now.
Fake President Trump also managed to alienate the NBA. The Golden State Warriors were last years NBA champions, and typically the championship team is invited to the White House to meet the President. Stephen Curry decided not to go, so Trump disinvited the entire team:
quote:
Going to the White House is considered a great honor for a championship team. Stephen Curry is hesitating, therefore invitation is withdrawn! -Donald J Trump
From Trump Withdraws White House Invite To NBA Champions:
quote:
The Cavaliers’ LeBron James indicated earlier that he wouldn’t have visited the White House had his team won. Several members of the champion New England Patriots NFL team, including quarterback Tom Brady, did not attend a White House ceremony in April to mark their Super Bowl win.
The only people Fake Trump can't seem to offend are his core base. They must think this is the fiction of reality TV rather than the real world.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Fix Eric Winston role.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1204 by NoNukes, posted 09-23-2017 4:07 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1210 of 4573 (820776)
09-27-2017 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1207 by Taq
09-26-2017 10:52 AM


Re: Un and Ummer
Taq writes:
Pretty low, IMHO. The NK regime knows that war would mean an end to their rule, so they will avoid it at all costs.
I agree that the risk of war is pretty low, and would add that North Korea and China aren't the only countries with strong motivations for avoiding war. North Korea has the 4th largest army in the world, and one of the first casualties of war would be Seoul and much of South Korea. South Korea has the 11th largest economy in the world, and the 27th largest population. War for South Korea, despite the protection of the United States, would be a disaster.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1207 by Taq, posted 09-26-2017 10:52 AM Taq has not replied

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