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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6149
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 121 of 173 (819098)
09-06-2017 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Faith
09-06-2017 2:39 AM


Re: An odd coincidence
Faith responds to me

quote:
I don't recall saying much at all about the ACA. Can you point me to it?

I can't right now so I will retract. My apologies.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 09-06-2017 2:39 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1753
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 122 of 173 (819107)
09-06-2017 9:49 AM


Spot the anecdote
So how would one go about assessing this example. I know this guy and can verify that what he describes below is essentially true. He is a bit of a character and you can read more about him here but the key summary is this,

quote:
I was on the following medication since 1991 when i got injured at work.

120mg oxcycontin
30mg morphine
30mg toradol
4 tylenol #4
150 mg amitriptaline
200 mg celebrex
2000 mg metphormin
15 mg lipator
15 mg clonazapane
15 avianda
4mg coversyl
8 mg coversyl
20 mg Zantac was for acid reflux from the medication.

Since i began ingesting this plant 5 years ago just for pain , these were the side effect of cannabis

1/ My pain went from a 9.5  every day to a 3

2/ I stopped throwing up after 20 years in the same day! I have not gotten sick since

3/ I could sleep for the first time in 20 years the feeling that my arms have been ripped off relieved (MY GOD THIS WAS UNBELIEVABLE)

4/ I couldn,t lift my arms over my head .It is ununcomfortable but i can do it

5/ I had a gradual weight loss in 3 years of 46 lbs

6/ It lowered my blood sugar to normal range

7/ I have not had a cold or flu in 3years ( no flu shot)

8/ The fisher cracks  in my feet that would bleed and need medical attention went away they are soft !

9/ The moles and warts and skin tags are falling off my skin

10/ The diabetic nerve pain gone


So for me and you this is an anecdote but it isn't for him. Now jar has already dismissed this story as completely useless or even worse and most of the rest of you readers could easily dismiss it as bogus and fraught with uncertainties.

I appreciate that he draws conclusions that he shouldn't but I find it difficult to dismiss the obvious benefits of his getting off the drugs.

How should he weigh his personal experience against all of the scientific data that supported his medication schedule?

Edited by ProtoTypical, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by PaulK, posted 09-06-2017 10:05 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply
 Message 124 by jar, posted 09-06-2017 10:32 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply
 Message 125 by NoNukes, posted 09-06-2017 10:38 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 09-06-2017 10:43 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply
 Message 129 by herebedragons, posted 09-06-2017 12:21 PM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13122
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 123 of 173 (819108)
09-06-2017 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by ProtoTypical
09-06-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Spot the anecdote
Firstly, if it's really working for him, great. Second, if he's trying to sell other people on it I'd really want more than his say-so. Third, he ought to make sure it really is working for him the way he thinks it is.

That said, not taking drugs you don't need is always a good thing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-06-2017 9:49 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 124 of 173 (819109)
09-06-2017 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by ProtoTypical
09-06-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Spot the anecdote
Spot the guy that shopped his pain. The issue I have with your story is either the guy should be investigated or the doctors.

If the person was really prescribed that batch of drugs then as Ricky said "you gots some 'splain to do!"

PT writes:

Now jar has already dismissed this story as completely useless or even worse and most of the rest of you readers could easily dismiss it as bogus and fraught with uncertainties.

Since this is the first time I saw that story I think you are somewhat mistaken.

What I certainly will say about that story is I find it very hard to believe and also find it anecdotal and the very weakest, most unreliable, form of evidence.

Edited by jar, : fix quote marks


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-06-2017 9:49 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9921
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 125 of 173 (819110)
09-06-2017 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by ProtoTypical
09-06-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Spot the anecdote
Given that the regime he was placed on appears to be horse-caca, I am not surprised that he feels better without it. Taking tylenol, morphine, celebrex, and oxycontin sounds pretty horrendous.

This guy is taking so much stuff, that it seems likely that some of the stuff was making him sick. The pain meds alone scare the crap out of me.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-06-2017 9:49 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by JonF, posted 09-06-2017 11:56 AM NoNukes has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 126 of 173 (819111)
09-06-2017 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by ProtoTypical
09-06-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Spot the anecdote
Thank you for posting that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-06-2017 9:49 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 127 of 173 (819112)
09-06-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
09-05-2017 3:50 PM


Re: Kordich
Faith writes:

Y'all just keep on proving what I said about character assassination to be true. Sheesh.;

It is rather ironic that you say this after assassinating our character.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 3:50 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 128 of 173 (819113)
09-06-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by NoNukes
09-06-2017 10:38 AM


Re: Spot the anecdote
My brother-in-law was in the service and uses VA medical facilities. His late wife had all sorts of problems. Of course she never saw the same doctor twice. At one point they realized she was taking 40 meds and nobody could figure out why she was taking half of them. She was a zombie.

So it does happen.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by NoNukes, posted 09-06-2017 10:38 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by NoNukes, posted 09-06-2017 3:52 PM JonF has responded

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1413
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 129 of 173 (819116)
09-06-2017 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by ProtoTypical
09-06-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Spot the anecdote
How should he weigh his personal experience against all of the scientific data that supported his medication schedule?

I heard a story about a lady who was in a nursing home and practically dead. They decided to take her off all her medications and just let nature take its course. In a short time she recovered and ended up going home in a couple months.

The point of all this is... should everyone, or even anyone, stop taking their medications because of this, or any other, anecdotal story?

I think the clear answer is "NO".

Can we use this story as a lesson in over-medication and question our own treatment regimes to be sure we are getting the best care possible? I think there is very good reason to do so.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-06-2017 9:49 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9921
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 130 of 173 (819130)
09-06-2017 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by JonF
09-06-2017 11:56 AM


Re: Spot the anecdote
At one point they realized she was taking 40 meds and nobody could figure out why she was taking half of them.

So it does happen.

I am sure that it does. I'll bet some of that stuff was to treat the side effects of other stuff. Does that mean people should not take their insulin if they have diabetes? No, it doesn't.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by JonF, posted 09-06-2017 11:56 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by JonF, posted 09-06-2017 5:15 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 131 of 173 (819132)
09-06-2017 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by NoNukes
09-06-2017 3:52 PM


Re: Spot the anecdote
Indeed it doesn't.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by NoNukes, posted 09-06-2017 3:52 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 132 of 173 (819659)
09-13-2017 7:40 PM


Managing Meniere's Disease of the Inner Ear with nutritional supplements
I had never hard of Meniere's disease until a couple years ago when my brother was diagnosed with it. It's not life-threatening in the literal sense but it effectively destroys a person's life in another sense. It's a disease of the inner ear that brings on spells of dizziness/vertigo that can last anywhere from a half hour or so to a whole day, sometimes relatively mild but other times like being furiously whipped around on the craziest carnival ride ever, often bringing on vomiting, and making it impossible to navigate in the physical world. It involves tinnitus to an extreme degree, so loud and screaming that all by itself it makes life nearly unlivable. Since being diagnosed with it my brother has made friends with a couple of other men who have been suffering from it, one of them reaching the end stage where the symptoms may stop completely leaving the person totally deaf in the affected ear or ears. He was an airline pilot who had to quit because of it back in the 90s. The other has had it a decade or so longer than my brother and is able to manage it with the help of an understanding employer. My brother got by for a year with long intermissions from it, but it's become more frequent and more debilitating in the last year and I've had to give up on his taking me to the market as he used to do.

The bouts are completely unpredictable, nobody can identify a trigger, though some think they can feel when one is about to come on and pull over to the side of the road or take whatever other defensive action is necessary. Many people have had to give up driving altogether, have lost their jobs, and can't even risk going out at all for fear of being overtaken by an episode in a public place. The doctors know at least that it's associated with blood pressure and prescribe eliminating salt from the diet but that's about all they know, and at best it may lessen the symptoms slightly.

Then someone gave my brother a lead to a book written by a woman who had suffered from it and claims to have learned how to completely keep it under control with nutritional supplements.

More later. A thunderstorm is brewing and my power may go out.

ABE: Storm seems to have moved on.

This woman is Mary Kay Carr and her book is "Meniere's Whisperer." She claims to have gone from a debilitating case of the disease that took away her job and her ability to drive, to the reinstatement of job and driving ability by learning more about the disease than most doctors know. I'm getting all this in bits and pieces from my brother mostly but as I understand it her research led her to recognize a connection between the disease and a history of chicken pox, shingles and herpes, which led her to methods of treating those conditions. Trial and error brought her to dietary solutions as well as the use of blood-thinning supplements and others specifically addressed to the herpes virus in particular, starting with Lysine. I don't remember all her recommendations but as I learn more about it I'll report on it.

I do have one cautionary concern: that she too may have already passed beyond the active stages into the end stage where her recovery might be more a function of having lived it out than the effect of her treatment regimen. She does say, however, that she did experience her symptoms going away as long as she stuck to the dietary regimen, and then returning with a vengeance when she got complacent and stopped following it. I'm very interested in seeing what it does for my brother and his friends who are now all following it. All three of them had chicken pox and I think herpes simplex and two had shingles.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by caffeine, posted 09-14-2017 5:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1344
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 133 of 173 (819829)
09-14-2017 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
09-13-2017 7:40 PM


Re: Managing Meniere's Disease of the Inner Ear with nutritional supplements
I do have one cautionary concern: that she too may have already passed beyond the active stages into the end stage where her recovery might be more a function of having lived it out than the effect of her treatment regimen. She does say, however, that she did experience her symptoms going away as long as she stuck to the dietary regimen, and then returning with a vengeance when she got complacent and stopped following it. I'm very interested in seeing what it does for my brother and his friends who are now all following it. All three of them had chicken pox and I think herpes simplex and two had shingles.

I had also never heard of Meniere's disease until a few minutes ago when I read your post, and I know nothing about Mary Jay Carr, so I am not commenting on this case specifically. I did want to raise a note of caution about how bad we are at self-reporting though - experiments in which people are asked to record certain things as they happen; and then later asked to make summaries without access to their recordings, show that we're surprisingly bad at remembering these things accurately.

So when someone says 'it got worse when I was doing x and better when I was doing y'; I think it's always wise to take such things with a pinch of salt.

This is the whole point of clinical studies - it's the best way we have to figure out if the apparent patterns we see actually have a basis in reality. Anecdotes are a way to find out what might be worth studying; they're not reliable as a way to how things actually work,

Having said that, if it's a rare or difficult disease that doctors don't know how to treat, and the recommended treatment is not something dangerous in itself, no harm in giving it a try,


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 09-13-2017 7:40 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1800
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 134 of 173 (819886)
09-14-2017 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by caffeine
09-14-2017 5:41 PM


Re: Managing Meniere's Disease of the Inner Ear with nutritional supplements
Caffeine and Faith, thank you. When I first saw this I was thinking that's what I might have...constant dizziness, vertigo, etc. But it looks like the symptoms are far more severe than what is happening to me. I still have vertigo, especially trying to pick something off the floor. But I think it's more my diet & lack of exercise.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3039
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 135 of 173 (819892)
09-14-2017 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by xongsmith
09-14-2017 7:57 PM


Re: Managing Meniere's Disease of the Inner Ear with nutritional supplements
I was having a mild bout of something similar for a bit, and then suddenly, the bones in my neck clicked into place, and my vertigo immediately disappeared.

Other person I knew was having the vertigo all the time, turned out she had primary antiphospholipid syndrome that was misdiagnosed for about a decade, and the dizzy spells were tia's.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by xongsmith, posted 09-14-2017 7:57 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

  
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