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Author | Topic: Revolting middle class. If the rich keep funding war with the lives of the lower clas | |||||||||||||||||||
AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Lets keep our arguments focused on the substance of the discussion and not on each other.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
I tried but was pushed and gave an argument.
RegardsDL
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
They don't starve because they are "less fit". A victim is not "less fit". Calling them "less fit" is doing them a disservice, as if they deserve to die.
You did a disservice to all the millions who starve to death yearly as well as telling the less fit, who know that they are not as fit as some...
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
You can think your way all you want without posting here. But if you're going to post here, back up what you claim. You think your way I will think mine. So far, what you've said about "fitness" is nonsense. Society is a matter of give and take. Those who take also give. You can not determine who is "fit" based on whether they are giving or taking at a given moment.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Your last is true, but they can be viewed as a subset of society whose fitness can be measured beside the more fit.
The capability and capasity to give to a society is one of the measures of that individuals fitness. So is the lack of that ability. If not, show why not. RegardsDL Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
I have already pointed out that there are no fixed subsets of "givers" and "takers". He who gives one day takes the next day. How do you measure contributions that don't involve dollars and cents? How do you determine what is a contribution and what is not?
The capability and capasity to give to a society is one of the measures of that individuals fitness. So is the lack of that ability. If not, show why not.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Ringo
I did not say that tax takers do not contribute at all. I said that they are less fit and contribute less due to having to be tax takers. Or something along that line. Certainly some of the less fit tax takers contribute, just not as much as the more fit or lucky. RegardsDL
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
I asked how you determine what is a contribution and what is not, and how you measure "how much" each contribution is. Without some kind of objective metric, you have no basis for claiming that one person is "more fit" than another.
I did not say that tax takers do not contribute at all. I said that they are less fit and contribute less due to having to be tax takers.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
You are asking for subjective judgements of individual cases.
I can only answer if you give the scenario or issue you want me to address. I gave one fitness metric, that being tax paying v/s tax taking, that a state, if it could talk, would say that the payers are more fit than the takers. Other metrics could be reproduction, ability to raise children, contributions to science and the arts, the ability to help others. A short list but that is what comes to mind quickly. So what metric, if not those, should I be looking at. Which ones are you looking at that makes you think those I call less fit tax taxers are just as fit as taxpayers? RegardsDL
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
No I'm not. I even used the word "objective". I'm asking for objective criteria which you can use to determine whether somebody is "more fit" than somebody else.
You are asking for subjective judgements of individual cases. Greatest I am writes:
We've been over that. There isn't one finite group paying taxes and another finite group receiving the benefits of taxes. Everybody pays taxes and everybody receives the benefits of taxes.
I gave one fitness metric, that being tax paying v/s tax taking.... Greatest I am writes:
We've been over that too. In fact, people with lower incomes tend to have more children.
Other metrics could be reproduction, ability to raise children... Greatest I am writes:
Again everybody has the ability to help others. How do you measure the value of grandpa taking the kids to the park? How do you measure the value of pushing your neighbour's car out of a snowdrift?
... the ability to help others. Greatest I am writes:
You should be looking at a metric that supports your claim, an objective criterion that can be used to determine who is "fit" and who is not.
So what metric, if not those, should I be looking at.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Ringo
Seems we are about done if you want to believe you have refuted most of what I put, when you have not. "No I'm not. I even used the word "objective". I'm asking for objective criteria which you can use to determine whether somebody is "more fit" than somebody else." Since most issues are subjective, the only objective criteria I can give is death. The fittest is alive the least fit is dead. RegardsDL
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
So, since you admit that your conclusion is based on subjective criteria, you must also admit that your conclusion is subjective. You might as well just tell us what your favorite colour is.
Since most issues are subjective, the only objective criteria I can give is death.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 300 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Maroon.
But even that will be subjective as many of us are color blind. RegardsDL
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
So your whole point about "fitness" isn't really a point at all. It's just an opinion. But even that will be subjective as many of us are color blind. Edited by ringo, : No reason given.
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