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Author | Topic: Evidence of the flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
RR writes: Fact, humans thought that the world was flat was fact. I am always amazed at how closed minded everyone here really is. jar is just an atheist kiss ass, who never really says things of substance, well at least not yet until better evidence is available. In my opinion, (as long as we are gossipping) jar is less worried about the atheists at EvC than he is about the Christians.(Ones who call themselves Christian) I suppose it's good that prayers are happening. Did you hear that Houston and the media are mad at Joel Osteen? Seems they were pressuring him to do the good thing and open up his church as an emergency shelter. I'm sure he has a sound reason why he did not do this. He will probably say that he is donating resources/money another way. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar and riverrat are two old members here. jar and I often argue about the same things numerous times. Rat has been gone from the forum for a couple of years and only recently came back, so he knows the drill around here... jar will never agree with you but only clarify and reframe the basic argument presented. Gotta love him!
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
RR writes: How has your life been away from here, anyway? Do you still fly the model airplanes? It's just the same old sad tired story in this forum. Liberal debate tactics. Keep arguing and talking until something doesn't jive and then say "there, see I told you". But by then you are so far off topic, it is invalid and has nothing to do with it. What made you come back to this frustrating place anyway? (Yeah we missed you)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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This poll is 3 years old, but the statistics appear to change little from year to year.
In U.S., 42% Believe Creationist View of Human Origins quote: The poll shows that Faith is not lying. She is describing the beliefs of many of the conservative fundamentalist or conservative charismatic Christians. I know a bunch of them. They argue with me over things much as Faith does here.here is one such exchange (on facebook) between one of my best friends---a man who works with the homeless and serves in soup kitchens here in Denver: quote: Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I believe you, Faith. I may not agree with many of the literalist Biblical believers, but I wont go so far as to say that they are definitely wrong. One of the preachers whom I respect, Francis Chan, posted an interesting sermon which I shall share with you:
Francis Chan: How to Make Yourself Immune to the Mark of the Beast I'm not sure if I can allow myself to believe this stuff, but I also wont insist that its all an illusion. If it is proven that the educated secular mindset in this country is wrong, the world surely will have gone mad. I want you to know that I dont disrespect you for what you believe concerning the Bible. I agree with Tangle, however, in that "You have to defend your belief to yourself using any rationalization you can find. Almost like you've not got the confidence to simply believe, you also have to find a way to prove to yourself that your belief is right despite all the evidence." I realize that your health is not all that great and that the cognitive dissonance at believing science and denying your faith and belief would be too great of a strain on you. And God only knows that you and my friend may be right in the final scheme of things. Many of my literalist Christian friends warn me to not try and change what the bible actually says. Perhaps I am wrong for being on the fence, but I cannot deny logic, reason, and reality. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: I know she is not lying about what she and many others believe. I have mentioned the Christian Cult of Ignorance at least once before IIRC. That does not change the fact that it is a system based on lies; lies about the Bible lies about God, lies about reality. If you want any evidence of Satanic influence you need look no further than the Christianity you describe. It is hard for us to admit that we believe but we could be wrong. I still think that if there is another war, it will be caused by an economic collapse here in America. An end times tribulation type of event could ironically be a self-fulfilling prophecy supported by a large percentage of Biblical Literalist believers I trust that Jesus is alive and will get me through any cognitive dissonance concerning the future. I try and focus on my mental health at the moment---I'm not going to worry about the future, but I can honestly say that if my retirement money ever gets wiped out, I might go crazy. I have been influenced heavily by our conversations the past ten years, but I won't accept that the Bible could all be just a story created by humans---with the Jesus described being little more than a character. Getting back on topic, though. Science thrives on evidence. This logically makes sense. There is no evidence of a global flood. A global flood is either simply a parable or a belief. IF God actually caused such an event, the evidence has been hidden....but for what reason? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes: There is no evidence of a global flood. A global flood is either simply a parable or a belief. IF God actually caused such an event, the evidence has been hidden....but for what reason? jar writes: Wrong question. We can never know a reason so the question is a waste of time. Right question: Why would or should anyone ever trust such a deceitful dishonest, genocidal God? Perhaps some people insist on believing in the flood---as well as a literal Bible in general--because they have cognitive dissonance regarding Gods intentions for humanity. I have been told (and taught) that it is vital to believe in an inerrant literal Bible. Due to many of the conversations here, as well as deductive reasoning, I have rejected that belief...though admit that I could be wrong. I have to go with logic, reason, and reality until it is proven wrong. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If what you say is true, why is it that 90% of scientists dont see the evidence that you see? Do you believe what my friend does---that there is a vast conspiracy coupled with massive denial?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I've been watching this exchange of words, emotions, and an imaginary ping pong match on what evidence actually is.
In defense of Faith, I feel that she strongly believes that if secular folks were honest within themselves, they would believe that a global flood (Hint: Bible=Truth=Jesus) is a potential reality. In other words, Faiths internalized method of evangelizing is to preach creationism. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Faith) That's the only answer that I've come up with regarding her insistence that there is evidence. I, on the other hand, have never had a problem with belief in a living Christ uncoupled with a literal belief in a word for word Genesis. Mind you, many of my biblical literalist friends, Pastors, and church acquaintances would disagree with my assessment. They might be right in the final analysis (and trumpet) and I might be wrong. Which would, of course, mean that all of us were wrong. I respect the discipline of science because I respect a lot of you and what you do and what you have learned. Similarly, I respect many of my conservative Biblical Literalist friends and Pastors because of what they do. As for my own personal beliefs? They are full of more questions than answers...but I trust that Jesus loves all of us and wants the best for us. Add by edit:
Faith writes: Tell them specifically what it is that you want them to see, Faith. It's a matter of honest seeing, as I said But that isn't going to happen is it? Edited by Phat, : added pointChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Percy, replying to Faith writes: You're not even honest enough to discuss evidence of the flood in a thread titled Evidence of the flood. For the record, let's define precisely what evidence is and is not. Can everyone list their interpretation of the definition? Edited by Phat, : sub titleChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Ken Ham is responsible for a lot of this controversy. I know that you think he is another Christian con-man, but i dont know him nor his ministry well enough to judge that. What I do know is what he says...it is plainly available right here on the internet.
The Necessity for Believing in Six Literal Days Ham seems to believe that Biblical word for word literalism is necessary in order to believe (and not doubt) that Jesus is alive and is God. He quotes: If we allow our children to accept the possibility that we can doubt the days of creation when the language speaks so plainly, then we are teaching them a particular approach to all of Scripture. Why shouldn’t they then start to doubt that Christ’s Virgin Birth really means a virgin birth? Why shouldn’t they start to doubt that the Resurrection really means resurrection? You have presented another approach to reading the Bible and so, of course, disagree with Ken Ham. We here at EvC may trust you more because you have nothing to sell or gain from your words. You always taught me that doubt was healthy. I personally prefer to use the phrase "To Question" rather than "To Doubt"...because in matters of faith and belief, a man who does not stand for something will fall for anything! But I will agree that the focus of this particular thread is on evidence rather than faith and belief.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Looking through our archives, I came upon this PNT (which was never promoted) from our now deceased member Buzsaw. What Constitutes By Definition, Evidence Of Supernatural Phenomena
His basic definition of evidence was quote: Much of our disagreement concerning evolution vs creationism focuses on what evidence is and is not. As for my own definition of evidence? In a Forum such as this, much of my perception of evidence relies on the character of the one posting, coupled with the argument that they lay out. If the argument makes sense, I will consider that to be subjective evidence. Thus I agree with your assessment, Stile. You hit the nail on the head. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
To her credit, she is EvC Forums lone representative of Biblical Creationism. The others come and go, but Faith is of this writing our second most prolific poster only to jar.
I am still waiting for everyone to clarify what exactly evidence is. I figure that there is a scientific definition, which I can easily look up and then an alternative facts explanation for the other side. Perhaps that definition would be something along the lines of subjectivity. Comments?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
NN writes: Perhaps some believe that the existence of a global flood Had to have happened and therefore spend a lot of time and energy constructing alternate facts and scenarios. Personally, I would go bonkers trying to do this... The existence of God is not provable or disprovable by philosophy or science. But I have to hand it to Faith that she puts so much time into it. She once claimed that she no longer had the energy to do certain things, but the voluminous quantity of sentences that she puts out would compile several term papers per year! Again, in a larger context, this is also what is happening to us politically. There is always now an alternate view and another side to reality. Im still waiting for the alternate explanation of the evidence, however.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Perhaps Faith has an alternative definition of evidence.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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