|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,483 Year: 3,740/9,624 Month: 611/974 Week: 224/276 Day: 64/34 Hour: 1/2 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Debt Clock | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
Having a Debt Ceiling is very good for several reasons.
First, it forces the subject to be publicly discussed and debated. Second, it requires at least a minimal oversight on spending. Third, it provides a specific self imposed limit yet can be modified as conditions change.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Trump Says Debt Ceiling Is 'Not Necessary.' Is He Right? Trump has a point. I see that Jar disagrees, but I don't necessarily disagree with Jar either. There are some political ramifications to having a debt ceiling, some good, and some bad. But historically, I would suggest that the bad ramifications outweigh the good ones. As a country, we really do not have the option not to pay our bills. Theoretically, the decision to spend the money we have spent was made many moons ago. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What we really need are Politicians capable of looking beyond the next newscast.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
What we really need are Politicians capable of looking beyond the next newscast. You are right. The real problem here is the inability to make any kind of budget other than under emergency conditions like those imposed by having to raise the debt ceiling. The short term planning we do wastes money at least by forcing folks to plan on short cycles, but also by forcing us to borrow money under shorter time cycles than we could if we knew our priorities in advance. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
NoNukes writes: I think the problem is even deeper. I believe that the entire financial system is based on borrowing, and is destined to fail. Watch this 9-minute video and tell me if you agree with the premise.
The real problem here is the inability to make any kind of budget other than under emergency conditions like those imposed by having to raise the debt ceiling. The short term planning we do wastes money at least by forcing folks to plan on short cycles, but also by forcing us to borrow money under shorter time cycles than we could if we knew our priorities in advance.
What Is A Bailout Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1046 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
I think the problem is even deeper. I believe that the entire financial system is based on borrowing, and is destined to fail. Watch this 9-minute video and tell me if you agree with the premise. What Is A Bailout I gave up when he started claiming bank notes were not legal tender. A thought on the debt ceiling - the article you quote earlier mentioned that about a quarter of US government debt was owed to the federal government. So what happens if the governments writes off debts to itself?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
It can't...because the debts to the government are the debts to the social security trust funds. Look at it as a debt to future obligations.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: It can't...because the debts to the government are the debts to the social security trust funds. Look at it as a debt to future obligations. But it can.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
Watch this 9-minute video and tell me if you agree with the premise. Out of respect for you, I watched the video. I am going to send you a bill for 9 minutes of my time. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1046 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined:
|
It can't...because the debts to the government are the debts to the social security trust funds. Look at it as a debt to future obligations. I'm not really getting this. If there's not enough money in the social security trust fund to pay social security; then the government would just have to pay the payouts directly, wouldn't it? So what's the relevance of the government owing money to it?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
caffeine writes: If there's not enough money in the social security trust fund to pay social security; then the government would just have to pay the payouts directly, wouldn't it? Not if it decides not to pay. The government can revise the Social Security rules at any time it wishes or even abolish Social Security if it wants.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The man who made the video is respected. His name is Paul Grignon. Its all common sense to me. I dont see what keeps you from seeing that.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
It would not be easy. Trump has even proposed tax reform aimed at it. FDR started it with the intention of having it around in perpetuity.
LA Times writes: Thus we the public need to fight this with everything we have. Social Security came from our earnings and should be ours---forever. As FDR foresaw, endowing Social Security with its own revenue stream has protected it over the years from grasping politicians mostly conservatives, who have aimed since 1935 to eviscerate the program. The weekly or bi-weekly payroll deductions that go to the program have given workers a proprietary interest in benefits that has been hard to undermine.(...)Already, conservatives and budget hawks repeat as a mantra that the cost of Social Security is unsustainable. That’s their claim even though the program runs a surplus today and ensuring its fiscal stability for the future would require a modest increase in the tax rate or removal of the cap on taxable wages ($127,200 this year). Scrapping the payroll tax would make it easier for Congress to cut Social Security benefits under the guise of saving the government money. And that’s just another way to funnel more money to the rich, at the expense of the working class. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Social Security came from our earnings and should be ours---forever. Yet that really is irrelevant. The reality is what the elected officials decide will be reality. FDR is not in office currently nor is any of the Congress that voted for it still in office.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
They have no idea how big of a revolution it would cause. The people always win, in the final analysis. If this government has any brains at all, they should know that.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024