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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 402 of 899 (819593)
09-13-2017 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by RAZD
09-13-2017 6:58 AM


Again, the Geo Column shows the absurdity of the OE/ToE
I don't have to ignore evidence that does not exist. Honestly faith, you have nothing but fantasy and rabid denial.
Hardly. Funny how you assert that over and over and don't even give one reason to think anything I've said is false. You are the one in denial ignoring my evidence, which is quite extensive and quite clear. The strata were all laid down continuously before there was any appreciable erosion or other disturbance; this is evidences in the Grand Canyon through the entire depth of the geological column and it proves the falseness of the supposed "time periods" of millions of years.
The trilobite and coelacanth fossils further support my argument by showing only microevolutionary changes on the typical order of varieties and races over what the standard theory says are hundreds of millions of years. These are the only fossils that occur in so many different strata up the geological column and they do not support the OE/ToE at all, which is fabricated out of the great "leaps" supposed between major groups such as reptiles and mammals. They support ordinary microevolution of the sort we see happening before our eyes in our own human time frame. They show millions of years to be ridiculous.
And there is also the absurdity of associating a time period with a huge flat sedimentary rock, let alone ALL the time periods. The very idea of a time period so clearly demarcated from others is absurd to begin with, and having them marked by sedimentary deposits is eyerolling absurdity.
And the other absurdity of trying to claim the Geoloigical Column is continuing in lakebeds and seafloor. I've explained this sufficiently in my previous post on this subject.
So what is that, four separate arguments based on observable facts that show millions of years to be absurd and rapid deposition to be the only reasonable interpretation of the actual form of the strata.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2017 6:58 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 452 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 7:14 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 420 of 899 (819613)
09-13-2017 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Aussie
09-13-2017 12:19 PM


evidence of God
Evidence of God is the Bible.
Evidence of Allah is the Koran.
Actually not. The Bible gives evidence galore throughout, historical accounts of God's doings in the world, as witnessed by many people who are named, and much of the gospels describes Jesus' miraculous doings to verify His deity; but the Koran just assumes the existence of Allah and doesn't give one iota of evidence.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 419 by Aussie, posted 09-13-2017 12:19 PM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 421 of 899 (819614)
09-13-2017 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by PaulK
09-13-2017 9:45 AM


Re: Again, the Geo Column shows the absurdity of the OE/ToE
The problem here is that all you guys do is repeat the establishment point of view, but as a YEC I'm operating from a different paradigm: there are no millions of years, the observed facts are the forms of the trilobites and the coelacanths which are not hard to find, and they demonstrate change on the order of microevolution within the species genome.
You seem to be confusing the argument from varves with the geological column.
Paradigm clash turns out to mean basically that nobody can ever argue from a different paradigm because the established paradigm is treated as sacrosanct and there is no tolerance for the other.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 422 of 899 (819616)
09-13-2017 1:30 PM


evidence
Evidence is facts that support a particular interpretation or conclusion. Strata and fossils are facts that exist, and they support the interpretation of the Flood, a lot better than they support the interpretation of the Geological Time Scale, which is what they are currently used for. Yes, evidence CAN be interpreted in different ways to support different conclusions. I think the Geological Column with its strata and fossils supports the Flood far better than the current interpretation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 438 by Phat, posted 09-13-2017 5:56 PM Faith has replied
 Message 455 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 7:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 440 of 899 (819642)
09-13-2017 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 439 by Percy
09-13-2017 6:11 PM


Re: Millions of aternating layers Faith
What a joke. You are the one who is always saying things that are physically impossible as I well remember from a couple of classic headbutts with you in years past. Arguing with you is like throwing one's mind down a rathole. And the problem at EvC of course is that contradicting the boss is not something the evo continent here much likes to do, with the occasional rare but very gingerly and insufficient exception. No, the policy at EvC is, the Creationist Is Always Wrong. You don't even need to think about the argument to know that. (So very often too, ridicule and character assassination, despite the supposed Rule against personal attack, presumably inaugurated by yourself, sufficie for a response from the evo side). So far on this thread unless I've missed something not one person here has even addressed my arguments at all. There's no need, cuz The Creationist Is Always Wrong by definition At EvC. Nobody will even consider the problem of paradigm clash as some of the explanation for the disconnect either, cuz The Creationist Is Always Wrong by definition.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 6:11 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 443 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 6:33 PM Faith has replied
 Message 461 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 8:09 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 441 of 899 (819644)
09-13-2017 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 438 by Phat
09-13-2017 5:56 PM


Re: evidence
First, I've presented my case and nobody is addressing it. That should be the first order of business but instead they change the argument. I've listed four different ways the strata and fossils prove the Old Earth is false, and they come back with varves. This is typical at EvC and I often don't catch it, we just go spinning along on this crazy merry go round from one topic to another before I catch that nobody has even considered my argument.
Second, I don't think I've said their evidence is not evidence, I've even said in some cases it is good evidence for the Old Earth scenario and should be chalked up to that side of the debate (mostly because I haven't studied the topic in question well enough to have an answer to it yet). Of course since much of their evidence is the same as my evidence, though for very different conclusions, if I have a clear different conclusion that is how I answer: the evidence doesn't prove what they think it proves, it proves something else. It doesn't prove the OE, it proves the YE or the Flood etc.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 444 of 899 (819647)
09-13-2017 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 442 by Percy
09-13-2017 6:33 PM


Re: trilobites are trilobites are trilobites
They are not the same VARIETY of trilobite, or "race" which is probably the more correct term, but they are both trilobites, a species or a Kind. A three-lobed creature that is found in many varieties or races up the Geological Column. Like different breeds of dogs or cats, "dog" and "cat" being the species, the breed being the variety or race; that is what is seen in the fossil record of the trilobites. Yes we could argue semantics forever and in fact that is often all the debates here amount to, but that is typical in a paradigm conflict.
But thank you for addressing my argument.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 447 of 899 (819650)
09-13-2017 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by jar
09-13-2017 6:33 PM


Re: Truth and Reality say the Creationist is always wrong.
You're so funny jar. "Ignorance" is Evospeak for disagreeing with either the Old Earth or Theory of Evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 6:33 PM jar has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 451 of 899 (819654)
09-13-2017 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 445 by Percy
09-13-2017 6:40 PM


A charming fat fish proves radiometic dating is false cuz the varves aren't annual
As I keep trying to say I want my arguments discussed because they are the ones I understand the best, and I'm willing to shelve some on the other side under "Support for OE" for now. But I just spent a bit of time reading up on the Green River Formation and I have to admit I had the wrong idea of what it is. I see now that it is part of the strata I am talking about and not something apart from the Flood after all. Mea culpa, I am sorry for the mistake.
But as I started reading up on it, reading about these very very fine alternating layers of sediments with different amounts of organic matter in them. I encountered a discussion of the fossils preserved in them. Fossils of big fat fish for instance, much bigger than any supposedly annual pair of varves could cover up to their knees as it were. I pondered this for half a second and laughed out loud. These fish all by themselves prove that the varve pairs are not annual because the fish would have rotted away or been eaten within days, weeks or months of being "buried" by this minuscule amount of sediment. It would take at least ten years to cover them to a depth sufficient to provide the environment for fossilization, which of course is way too late.
I also found an article claiming to prove that the varves are indeed annual. Well, the fish fossils prove they aren't. The article proves it by, guess what, radiometric dating. The fish therefore prove that RADIOMETRIC DATING IS FALSE.
GREEN RIVER VARVES JUST MOVED FROM THE OE EVIDENTIARY SUPPORT COLUMN TO THE YEC SUPPORT COLUMN.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Or trot out your next ridiciulous sophistry to explain this away. I can't wait.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 500 by Percy, posted 09-14-2017 7:36 AM Faith has replied
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 Message 512 by edge, posted 09-14-2017 11:42 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 453 of 899 (819656)
09-13-2017 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 452 by Percy
09-13-2017 7:14 PM


Re: Again, the Geo Column shows the absurdity of the OE/ToE
Oooooo hivvens to bitsy, a YEC's thoughts can only be validated by a gaggle of evolutionists? Ha de ha ha ha.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 7:14 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 474 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 8:51 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 458 of 899 (819664)
09-13-2017 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by Coragyps
09-13-2017 7:41 PM


Re: A charming fat fish proves radiometic dating is false cuz the varves aren't annual
Aha, of course. Very plausible. So you've got ancient shipwrecks with perfectly preserved human corpses in them? Can you show pictures of lakebeds littered with perfectly preserved corpses of fish and other creatures that must be rather abundant if your claim is true?:
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by Coragyps, posted 09-13-2017 7:41 PM Coragyps has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 459 of 899 (819665)
09-13-2017 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by Coragyps
09-13-2017 7:41 PM


Re: A charming fat fish proves radiometic dating is false cuz the varves aren't annual
A lot of fat fish (as well as all kinds of other water dwellers) should be caught on camera since I gather there are quite a few fossils of same in the Green River formation, and of course they should be seen in various stages of burial by these minuscule layers, right? I mean, why would this layering have stopped anyway?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 462 of 899 (819668)
09-13-2017 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 460 by Coragyps
09-13-2017 8:08 PM


Re: A charming fat fish proves radiometic dating is false cuz the varves aren't annual
Ropes aren't bad for evidence though something recently alive would be far more convincing. Perhaps there's something about the ropes that contributed to their preservation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by Coragyps, posted 09-13-2017 8:08 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 463 of 899 (819669)
09-13-2017 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 461 by Percy
09-13-2017 8:09 PM


Re: Millions of aternating layers Faith
Sorry, perhaps I just skip your insulting messages too often.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 461 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 8:09 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by Percy, posted 09-14-2017 7:43 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 468 of 899 (819674)
09-13-2017 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by Coragyps
09-13-2017 8:21 PM


Re: A charming fat fish proves radiometic dating is false cuz the varves aren't annual
And the many fish in various stages of burial in these very fine annual varves?

This message is a reply to:
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