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Author | Topic: Evidence of the flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
jar writes: My 2s are honest actual 2s. Right, your subjective 2s are more legit than my subjective 2s. There's a word for that kind of thinking....
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
jar writes: Physical evidence is objective. Belief is subjective. Yes, that is what I am saying. Your belief, the cult of jar is subjective.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Percy writes: Those organizations and people believe that creationists do conduct real science, so you have no reason to exclude yourself from the ranks of the creationists. No Percy. I do not try to prove creation with science. I've already expressed my subjective belief multiple times, but I will write it one more time just for you. God does not want us to find physical evidence of His existence because John 3:16
You're not seeking evidence to help decide between competing explanations of the real world. The REAL world is part subjective. We cannot live by objective means only for multiple reasons. 1. It is impossible2. Some objectiveness changes over time and knowledge If you're looking for evidence of the fictional, I think your hawk is better evidence of Horus than of the flood. I am not looking for evidence. It found me. The story of the flood is amazing, be it fake or real.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
ringo writes: The keyword is "created". If you believe a creator was necessary to the process, you're a creationist. To be fair though, we most often use the word for the worst kind of science-deniers. You're only the second or third worst kind. Fine, I am a creationist who does not believe in creation science, fair enough? I don't like labels. Liek I prefer not to be called a Christian. Disciple is better, because I am always learning.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Percy writes: Sure you do. Science is about gathering evidence in support of hypotheses. You titled this thread Evidence of the flood and offered Harvey the Hawk as your evidence. What you *do* try to do is be absurdly contrary and argumentative at every opportunity, which is actually a good strategy for those with no support for their position. Wait a sec, did you just call me a scientist? Are you accusing me of using the scientific method? There you go, putting words in my mouth. I never offered a hypotheses. I just offered evidence. As I stated earlier, it was because I am tired of hearing the phrase "there is no evidence". There is evidence, you just choose to ignore it based on other evidence. So my position is that you are lying saying that there is no evidence. The end.
Well that's just daft. John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." It has nothing to do with your point. If you don't have the Holy Spirit, or a Godly understanding of the bible, of course you wouldn't understand. I;ve said it 3 different ways, lets make it 4. You must believe in God by faith. In order for that statement to be true, you cannot use objective evidence to believe in God. That's my hypothesis, based on John 3:16 and many other verses.
More irrelevant nonsense. You're arguing that a hawk in a car is evidence for a Biblical myth. What does that have to do with the fact that the evidence found me? I wasn't looking for evidence, it just happened, and as I watched it I felt the Holy Spirit telling me this is the way God designed animals.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Faith writes: My participation on this thread has been cursory at best, on the level of "strata and fossils" all along. I don't think Riverrat would miss me if I didn't post any more. You can post all you want. I support freedom of speech. I may not agree with you, so I am staying out your sidebar discussions, but you are free to post.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Percy writes: Well what do you know, contrary and argumentative with no support for your position. Again. I don't have a position, again.
A hawk seeking shelter is not evidence of a Biblical myth. Yes it is.
"Hey, hawk's in the car, it's raining, must be evidence that the Flood of the Bible was a real event." Good show! It doesn't prove or explain anything. It is just evidence.
But you're interpreting objective evidence (hawk seeks shelter in car, something that was observed to have really happened) as evidence of the Flood, a Biblical myth supporting your belief in God. Right, that's why the hawk does not prove God exists.
Yep, sounds like you've got an open and shut case there - the evidence sought you out, then voices in your head told you God designed animals to seek out cars (which by the way don't resemble an ark) for shelter. As soon as you start presenting facts(if you could stop character assaulting), I won't have to listen to voices in my head. The other people that responded objectively get it, why don't you?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
ringo writes: A disciple of Christ would be somebody who follows the teachings of Christ. You'd learn more by broadening your scope. Right now, your belief in Christ seems to be holding your learning back - e.g. you can't seem to learn that the Flood never happened. My belief in Christ came way after my agnostic stage. It isn't holding me back. Like I said, it doesn't matter if the flood happened or not. That is not really what this is about. What this is about is being able to be open minded enough so you won't be held back from finding Christ.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
ringo writes: Read the topic title. You said that it was evidence OF the flood. That is a hypothesis of sorts. No it isn't.
But does your evidence support the flood story? Do animals seek shelter in non-flood situations? Yes. So your hypothesis fails. No it doesn't. Because animals seek shelter in other situations does negate that they seek shelter in a flood, or biblical flood. It is only in addition too.
Nobody is ignoring your evidence. They're ignoring your interpretation of the evidence - because it's nonsensical. It really does not get any simpler. If you choose to ignore it, then its on you.
That statement isn't true. Jesus Himself encouraged Thomas to use objective evidence. Yep, before He died and gave us the Holt Spirit. God gave us tons of physical evidence. You see where that got us? After Jesus died it takes faith. John 3:16.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined:
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Taq writes: The stories written in the Bible by men are only evidence of what their religious beliefs were. Yes we know this because the bible tells us so.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Faith writes: What if there is a God who made it all and your atheistic science just completely misses it? Yes that should be your only stance Faith. God doesn't show us His existence by objective evidence after Jesus. You must believe by faith, Faith. John 3:16. You and all of creation science are wasting their time trying to prove God's existence. That's not how it works. Man had their chance. God showed us His existence over and over in the old testament. It didn't work. Maybe it was never meant to work. We don't know God's ways. You are wasting your time trying to prove the flood happened. I started this thread not to prove that the flood happened, only to prove that there is evidence of a flood. We just choose to ignore it. If you are a real scientist you cannot ignore all the evidence. We don't have all the evidence. I started this thread to make a point that nothing is ever proven, and that everything takes faith. To believe the sun will rise tomorrow takes faith. Atheists like to live their lives by objective evidence are wrong. The world is full of subjective things, and we all live by something subjective(love/hate). So to dismiss something merely on the fact that it is subjective is hypocritical. It is an objective fact subjectivity exists.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Percy writes: This site exists to discuss the claim that creation science *is* science, in the real sense of the word. No True Scottsman? Creation science is research, which is part of science, but it is not real science because of it's predetermined idea of what the result should be. That doesn't mean real scientists can't use any data collected during creation science. We just can't use their conclusions.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Coyote writes: But what if no gods exist, and someone bases their whole belief and interpretive systems on the existence of a particular god or gods? They're going to get a lot of things wrong. Maybe no more wrong than anyone else. Maybe even the wisdom contained in the bible used in the right context can give you an advantage in life. Your statement is bigoted and biased.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
NoNukes writes: but about whether the Flood, which few here seem to suggest is about the non-physical, happened. No, it's more about whether there is evidence at all. Too many people in here say there is no evidence at all. That sounds as biased as creation science.
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