Decline And Fall Of The American Empire

a major economic event is when a majority of the people are directly affected. Not just in having less disposable income but in having no income.

In relation to this discussion, Hurricane Irma could end up being a major economic event. Estimates of the costs associated with it are upwards of 100-300 billion dollars!

I would say $20,000.00 for new ones, $8000.00 for used ones.Just a guess

You could work...bartering is a form of economic trade. In order to help the economy, however...people would have to agree with each exchange of labor a common value. This isn't easy to do if I offer dandelion leaves while you have oak timber.

Because you said you could work even if not for money.

I could pay you in a medium of exchange agreed upon by both of us, but if you tried to buy bread with it, you would then have to agree with the baker before you could eat.

Because what if the baker cant come to an agreement with the farmer?Everyone has to agree on a means of value before the economy starts to work.

True, although different types of labor receive different rewards. The miners are hired to operate the machines and extract the natural resource. They receive a paycheck. The trucks are driven and haul the raw material to be crushed and sifted. The labor at the plant extracts the raw material from the rock. They get paid.
Then, the precious metal (as an example of the natural resource) gets made into jewelry and sold. The seller receives a commission and the buyer pays up.We are discussing several hundred paychecks. Which labor among them should receive the ultimate value of the sold product? Realistically, which labor does receive the most?we in the grocery store who do most of the work hauling the product to the shelves, engaging in pleasant dialogue with the customers, and serving them meat, deli, bakery and Starbucks are the direct point of sale between the consumer and the business...so we believe we earn a chunk of the profit. The corporate types who stroll through occasionally to see if every display is straight and not crooked receive far larger paychecks. The truck drivers who deliver the product also get a share. As do the manufacturers who actually refine and box the product. the obvious conclusion is that labor is involved in the sale of the product. The question is what percentage of the sale value should each aspect of the labor receive?

Within the context of the culture and lifestyle I was brought up in, I work hard. not as hard as some, and harder than others. Were you to throw me in a third world nation where I was pulling old computer parts apart for copper wire, I would probably work harder, and gripe louder at the pennies a day i earned.

Yes...if the money comes out of social security trust funds simply to pay mass labor.For the vanishing middle class, our future is tied up in "future obligations" while current obligations rob us of what we collectively saved.The whole problem with the rising tide argument is that it demolishes all of the houses built above water level. Marx saw it as class struggle. You know more about him than I do, but this whole idea of lumping the middle class in with the rich people is why I dont like communism.

Value is defined in human terms of need. The trees have value as flooring or other wood by-products. Labor is involved in creating that added hundred dollars. The property has value as a place to live or to exploit or to simply enjoy. You sold your trees so it appears you don't mind losing them.The Indians never could understand how the palefaces attached a monetary value to land, rivers, and trees. If there were a sudden scarcity of wood and you yourself needed it, you may have to pay someone else many times what you made with your deal. Value always involves labor in one way or another.Art is priceless simply because no agreeable value can be found.

The topic is the decline and potential fall of the US...lets get back to that since NCE is not up to accepting ringos frame of argument.In the news recently:
Trump Threatens to ‘Totally Destroy’ North Korea in First U.N. SpeechHopefully, Trump is not pushing us into a war. I respect his tough talk to a point...but the rhetoric could backfire...and Russia and China would win without firing a shot.Recently I read a prophey book by a Fundamentalist Pastor who suggested that the US would be destroyed in Bible Prophecy.

quote:

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America has been mentioned many times in scripture. The
clearest mention is found in Revelation 18. This chapter describes the end times
Babylon and the judgment that it will receive. I believe America is
the end-times Babylon talked about in this chapter. Let us examine this
chapter to find out why I believe America is the end-times Babylon, and
what will happen to her.

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The main reason why I along with many others believe that
America is the Babylon talked about in Revelation 18 is because of several
verses that, when considered collectively, lead us to conclude that
America is the only country that fulfills all of the parameters listed in the
verses. Let us examine what the scriptures say about this modern day end times
Babylon and see how they undeniably point to America.

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1. End-times Babylon is a great nation that receives judgment for its
many sins.
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the
great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils,
and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and
hateful bird. (Rev. 18:2)

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2. This nation is a superpower and has world dominance and
importance. It has also spread its corruption to the world.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her
fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication
with her. (Rev. 18:3)

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3. The merchants of the world are made rich through trading with
this nation. This nation consumes huge amounts of goods.
And the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the
abundance of her delicacies. (Rev. 18:3)
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her;
for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The
merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of
pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all
Thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner
vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and
marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and
frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and
beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls
of men. (Rev. 18:11—13)

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4. This nation is proud and arrogant and considers herself to be
invincible and the greatest nation on earth.
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so
much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (Rev. 18:7)

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5. This nation is typified by an extravagant lifestyle.
And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine
linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious
stones, and pearls! (Rev. 18:16)

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6. Other nations are controlled by her and given great riches by her.
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and
lived deliciously with her. (Rev. 18:9)

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7. This nation is a coastal nation, with deepwater ports and much
international trade.
And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors,
and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off. (Rev. 18:17)

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8. This nation has defenses in the heavens.
Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she
should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers
come unto her, saith the Lord. (Jer. 51:53)

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Which nation is the only one in the world that meets all those
qualifications? America! We are the greatest country in the world. We are
the only remaining superpower. We dominate world politics and dictate
much of what happens in other countries through whom and what we fund
in those countries.

​

We have the largest Gross National Product (GNP) in
the world, far surpassing all other countries. We buy huge amounts of
goods from other countries. In fact, the economy of many countries would
collapse without our trade dollars. We are a proud and arrogant people and
feel that we are invincible and that we are the greatest nation in the world.

​

America, as a whole, lives in luxury compared to the rest of the world. America has many deepwater ports, and the vast majority of goods entering this country come by way of ship. And, yes, we now are the only country that has offensive and defensive weapons in space.

​

The only country that meets all of the qualifications above is America.

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I take Biblical prophecy with a grain of salt, yet i dont totally dismiss the possibility.Edited by Phat, : fixed quoteEdited by Phat, : link to source

Hopefully!

Just so we can test the theory, the book also mentions today as the start of something big.(I dont really expect the prophecy to be correct, but just in case Kim Jong Un sends a missle our way....

quote:

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Prophecy researcher Daniel Matson has made some startling
discoveries regarding the date ciphers of the Great Pyramid complex at
Giza. In Chapter 16 of his book, Signs of the End he states;
What is important is that there is valuable information that must be
passed along that is a striking discovery concerning the Great
Pyramid complex at Giza and its marking both advents of Christ. It
is a discovery that is in line with the Bible, history, and the
224
magnificence of the pyramids. It highlights the time in precise
astronomical alignments. It is a discovery that fits the themes woven
into the Bible concerning the coming King and it further supports the
scenario developed in this book.
Thus his research has led him to believe that the Great Pyramid complex
at Giza astronomically aligned with the First coming of the Lord, and he
believes it will also at His Second Coming, and the alignment points to
Rosh Hashanah 2017. What leads the author to this conclusion?
The basic idea is that the pyramid complex is a map of the heavens
of a point in time when Christ the King returns with his armies. The
pyramids show what is to be at meridian (Al Nitak in Orion), and
also the causeways heading east from the pyramids show the
importance of the rising sun or other items rising in the east. That the
Sphinx also looks to the east is a factor as well. The point though
was to see when there was a candidate for an alignment of Rosh
Hashanah and the meridian alignment of Orion at dawn...Therefore,
at dawn the morning before the Feast of Trumpets 2017, Al Nitak is
precisely at meridian
Let us not forget the all-important Christ angle to see where it might
come into significance. At the moment Al Nitak is at meridian, Leo
is in the east, but more importantly its star known as Regulus (the
King) is precisely at the inclination of the Christ angle. Therefore,
the Christ angle not only bisected Bethlehem at Christ’s birth, but it
also bisects Regulus at this possible time of his Second Coming. The
year 2017 is the first year from present that Rosh Hashanah comes
immediately after September 20ththe time Al Nitak hits meridian
precisely at dawn, and also when Regulus hits the Christ angle
In analyzing the positioning of the stars, moon, and sun at the time of
September 20, 2017, there was also another alignment. Venus will be
in conjunction with Regulus at this time. So at this moment Venus
the Morning Star will be aligned with the King Star, precisely at
the Christ angle

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Edited by Phat, : sub title

Yours. You had to earn the hundred bucks to buy the trees somehow.