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Author | Topic: Decline And Fall Of The American Empire | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You're defining it so broadly that it doesn't have much meaning. You said, " the Fall Of The American Empire will be punctuated by a major economic event," and now you're making it sound like every other Tuesday.
a major economic event is when a majority of the people are directly affected. Phat writes:
How do you propose that that would happen? Going back to the idea of labour being a source of wealth, what's to prevent me from working, even if not for money?
Not just in having less disposable income but in having no income.
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Taq Member Posts: 10038 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Phat writes: a major economic event is when a majority of the people are directly affected. Not just in having less disposable income but in having no income. We are currently at 60% employment for people 16 and older. Adding another 10 percentage points to the currently unemployment numbers would probably be an indicator of a major economic downturn. However, power is relative. History has shown us that when the US goes through a recession or massive depression, so does the majority of the 1st world. The Great Recession of 2008 didn't happen just in the US. It happened world wide. So in relative terms, I think we would be just fine. We will still have all of the infrastructure we currently have. We will still have the diverse economy we currently have. We will still have a massive portion of the world's most productive farm lands. We will still have 300 million people and the means to put them to work. I don't want to swing too far in the Polyanna direction, but I just don't see a dire future for the US.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
In relation to this discussion, Hurricane Irma could end up being a major economic event. Estimates of the costs associated with it are upwards of 100-300 billion dollars!
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What is the average price of a car today?
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It will create a lot of work rebuilding. Is that a bad thing?
In relation to this discussion, Hurricane Irma could end up being a major economic event.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I would say $20,000.00 for new ones, $8000.00 for used ones.
Just a guessChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
With Harvey alone the estimate is 250,000 cars to as many as 1,000,000 cars. That's just car loss.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Going back to the idea of labour being a source of wealth, what's to prevent me from working, even if not for money? You could work...bartering is a form of economic trade. In order to help the economy, however...people would have to agree with each exchange of labor a common value. This isn't easy to do if I offer dandelion leaves while you have oak timber.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why wouldn't people use dollars for exchange? There's plenty of them around even if the economists, in their infinite wisdom, decide they're worthless.
In order to help the economy, however...people would have to agree with each exchange of labor a common value. This isn't easy to do if I offer dandelion leaves while you have oak timber.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Because you said you could work even if not for money.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The question was about work, not pay. What would prevent me from working? Nothing. What would prevent people from paying me in any mutually-agreed-upon medium of exchange? Nothing. Whether or not the medium of exchange is "backed" by the government is relatively insignificant.
Because you said you could work even if not for money.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I could pay you in a medium of exchange agreed upon by both of us, but if you tried to buy bread with it, you would then have to agree with the baker before you could eat.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yes. How is that an insurmountable problem?
I could pay you in a medium of exchange agreed upon by both of us, but if you tried to buy bread with it, you would then have to agree with the baker before you could eat.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
How is that an insurmountable problem? Because what if the baker cant come to an agreement with the farmer? Everyone has to agree on a means of value before the economy starts to work.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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"Because what if the baker cant come to an agreement with the farmer?"
Then he will have to try other farmers. One problem with bartering as an alternative to a system using debt is that the farmer cannot get paid for months after he starts working. If he needs some capital to get started, what will offer? His wife and children? Or an IOU... Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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