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Author | Topic: Decline And Fall Of The American Empire | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The topic is the decline and potential fall of the US...lets get back to that since NCE is not up to accepting ringos frame of argument.
In the news recently:
Trump Threatens to ‘Totally Destroy’ North Korea in First U.N. Speech Hopefully, Trump is not pushing us into a war. I respect his tough talk to a point...but the rhetoric could backfire...and Russia and China would win without firing a shot. Recently I read a prophey book by a Fundamentalist Pastor who suggested that the US would be destroyed in Bible Prophecy. quote: I take Biblical prophecy with a grain of salt, yet i dont totally dismiss the possibility. Edited by Phat, : fixed quote Edited by Phat, : link to sourceChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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I take Biblical Prophecy with more than a grain of salt, but if you really want to read those verses as dealing with current times then the U.S. Is the best match, and Fundamentalist "Christianity" the most likely source of the religion of the Beast (the mega-church phenomenon a particular point)
Of course, it is far more likely that they were intended to refer to the Roman Empire about the time of Nero.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Of course, it is far more likely that they were intended to refer to the Roman Empire about the time of Nero. Hopefully! Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Just so we can test the theory, the book also mentions today as the start of something big.(I dont really expect the prophecy to be correct, but just in case Kim Jong Un sends a missle our way....
quote: Edited by Phat, : sub titleChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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Sounds like a typical prophecy loon. I wonder how many failed predictions he has made already ?
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
Bullshit. You're not following because your questions are not about what I'm saying. You pay 100 for a plot of land and sell the logging rights for 200. You claim that's a "gain in value" of 100. But the trees didn't change. They fact that you only paid 100 means that you underpaid, not that the trees magically gained value. How is that not about what you're saying? If you buy something for half price, the value doesn't doubkle the minute you leave the store.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1503 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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In Phillie it's 50 bucks."You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs |
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You pay 100 for a plot of land and sell the logging rights for 200. You claim that's a "gain in value" of 100. But the trees didn't change. They fact that you only paid 100 means that you underpaid, not that the trees magically gained value. How is that not about what you're saying? It doesn't follow the story. I bought the land outright, no thought about the trees. The land had a value of 100 bucks to me. Then later somebody came along and offered the money for the rights to the timber. Now, the land has more value to me - solely from the rights to the trees, not even the trees themselves. Now that I know that the timber is worth money too, the land has even more value to me.
If you buy something for half price, the value doesn't double the minute you leave the store. If it isn't what someone is willing to pay for it, then what determines the value?
not that the trees magically gained value. If all value comes from labor, then who's labor provided the value to the rights to the trees? How many times have you dodged this question now? Who's labor adds the value that naturally exists in the resources?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If all value comes from labor, then who's labor provided the value to the rights to the trees? Yours. You had to earn the hundred bucks to buy the trees somehow.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I bought the land outright, no thought about the trees. The land had a value of 100 bucks to me. Your value can only increase through another persons labor. The client also had to work (or someone did) in order to offer $200.00 to you. Then later somebody came along and offered the money for the rights to the timber. Now, the land has more value to me - solely from the rights to the trees, not even the trees themselves. Now that I know that the timber is worth money too, the land has even more value to me.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
If all value comes from labor, then who's labor provided the value to the rights to the trees? Yours. You had to earn the hundred bucks to buy the trees somehow. I got the money from capital gains
Your value can only increase through another persons labor. The client also had to work (or someone did) in order to offer $200.00 to you. The part I disagree with is the "only". There are other ways for my value to increase. I've got some silver bars that are worth more today than when I bought them... All I had to do was let them sit in a safe.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Can competition increase value?
If CS's one buyer is willing to pay $200 for the rights of the trees...Well, what if his other neighbor hears of this and is now willing to pay $300 for the rights of the trees? And then the original buyer decides he's willing to pay $400 for the rights? What labour increases the value in any bidding war? I agree that labour is a good way (perhaps basic? fundamental? original? majority?) to increase/create value.But the only? That seems... difficult to defend.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
That's a fictitious "value". You can believe your painting is worth a million but unless somebody is willing to pay a million for it, it isn't really worth a million.
Now, the land has more value to me.... New Cat's Eye writes:
It's what somebody is willing and able to pay. They are able to pay because they have earned the money somehow. At some point, the money originates in labor.
If it isn't what someone is willing to pay for it, then what determines the value? New Cat's Eye writes:
The "rights" in and of themselves are meaningless. You can have the rights to every tree in the world but they're worth nothing unless you can cut them down and sell them.
If all value comes from labor, then who's labor provided the value to the rights to the trees? New Cat's Eye writes:
There is no value that naturally exists in the resources. They have no value until somebody does something.
Who's labor adds the value that naturally exists in the resources?
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
The value is the final price. It's what somebody actually pays. Cat's Eye paid less than the real value. That doesn't mean the value increased.
What labour increases the value in any bidding war?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
That's a fictitious "value". Then that's just another undefined term in your claim. All value comes from labor - for your own private definitions of value and labor that you refuse to explain. Nice job.
There is no value that naturally exists in the resources.
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