Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,387 Year: 3,644/9,624 Month: 515/974 Week: 128/276 Day: 2/23 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   YECism: sect or cult?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 14 of 97 (820608)
09-24-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
09-24-2017 10:56 AM


Re: Evidence versus Subjective experience
Phat writes:
Some of us have experienced a feeling. Subjectively we had strong confirmation.
I'd say that's almost normal - all you need is the right conditioning and have it reinforced by other. (It should be a clincher that no one ever believes in something that the society they live in has never come across, but of course it isn't somehow.)
I believed the entire thing in a really committed way until my early teens. Then suddendly I didn't - it all become utterly preposterous.
Now if your god actually does exist why would he do that? One minute I'm saved the next I'm going to hell for all eternity. Seems a tad unfair don't you think?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 09-24-2017 10:56 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 09-25-2017 4:18 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 09-25-2017 5:44 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 16 of 97 (820661)
09-25-2017 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
09-25-2017 4:18 AM


Re: Evidence versus Subjective experience
Phat writes:
If my God exists, it would not matter what you do or do not believe.
Yet if Faith's God exists, I'm definately going to hell in a handcart. Same god, same book, different wishful thinking.
But you didn't answer my question........
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 09-25-2017 4:18 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 09-25-2017 5:03 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 09-25-2017 8:32 AM Tangle has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 19 of 97 (820667)
09-25-2017 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
09-25-2017 5:44 AM


Re: Evidence versus Subjective experience
Faith writes:
Yeah but that's really a fantasy of your own.
You're denying reality. Again. The child born in a village in the Atlas mountains is a Muslim. The child born in the UK in 1600 was a Christian. No-one EVER spontaneously believed in a religion he'd no knowledge of.
It may be predominantly the case at least for all those who were actively raised in a culture's religion, but there are those in every culture who end up accepting the religion of another culture.
It IS predominantly the case - overwhelmingly. Of course in modern times races and belief systems mix because travel is now easy. Even so, in almost all cases it's an accident of birth that determines your religion.
So, how do you explain two friends of mine who were both raised Protestant and ended up serious Buddhists, one a priestess? All those at EvC for that matter who say they were raised Christian and have given it up. Somehow none of that counts for some reason.
Very easily, in Western society many people are looking for something to believe in and they can now find in almost anywhere. So a small percentage change or lose their born to faith. The fact that a few do this is no surprise.
Also, Christian missionaries DO succeed in converting people of other cultures to Christ, it's happened all over the world.
Of course they do! It's a disgraceful and digusting practice. All it says is that people have belief systems that are pragmatic and flexible. Christians are converting to Islam in the same way. That's not something that could have happened without exposure to them. Spontaneous belief does not exist, it has to be taught and it's best taught from birth.
Under no influence whatever? Just arrived at that opinion on your own?
Yup, just gradually realised that it was garbage. Took about 6 months from memory.
Well, God isn't stopping you from changing your mind you know. It's still your choice in the end.
Crap - he had me and then let me go. Thank god. The question is why? The answer is that it was just a childish delusion that I grew out of. Exactly like Father Christmas. And I do mean exactly; it felt exactly the same.
And you know what else is odd? Nobody spends much time if any complaining about Buddhism or Hinduism or any other religion on earth but Christianity. Don't you find that odd? Surely they are just as irrational by your lights, and surely they influence the people around them to their irrational beliefs.
Your kidding??? They're as bonkers as you. If you were a Hindu I'd be saying exactly the same things. The only reason you're not a Hindu is because you were not born into that culture.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 09-25-2017 5:44 AM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 31 of 97 (820829)
09-28-2017 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
09-28-2017 3:13 AM


Re: Lets Start With Recent History
Phat writes:
My conclusion is that creationism lacks the evidence that is needed to convince mainstream science.
It's really hard not to say 'no shit Sherlock' to this but I can see that you're being sincere.
Mainstream science rejected creationism over 100 years ago. That simply a fact. It was fatally injured by geology and despatched by biology and astronomy. Ever since, every single piece of evidence has confirmed an old earth and an evolution of species.
It's simply not discussed in science anymore, if you inhabit a religious world in the US and read creation arguments you may think that there's still an argument to be had, but there isn't. Outside the tiny US creationist bubble there is NO argument at all. It's proven beyond human means of detection that the earth is old and that the bible stories are mostly fiction.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 09-28-2017 3:13 AM Phat has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024