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Author Topic:   Elections are won in the primaries
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 113 (820575)
09-23-2017 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
09-22-2017 10:16 AM


Time to run alternative candidates in republican primaries ...
Fiscally conservative
Working family centered
Uh, I am a progressive...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 09-22-2017 10:16 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 09-23-2017 9:44 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 113 (820578)
09-23-2017 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
09-23-2017 9:44 AM


One that backed universal healthcare, working family values (minimum wage, family leave)
NC Republican that backs universal health care and the minimum wage. Really?
I would consider voting in a Republican primary based on other baggage that being a Republican brings, but in NC, our Republican primaries are about who is the furthest right, and who aligns more closely with Trump, and who can be tarred with not hating Obamacare.
And almost certainly the Democrats I am likely to see here already support such policies, so what would I do in the general election.
"Liberal" is a cussing word for many people here, particularly for folks outside of Raleigh, Durham, and Charlotte.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 09-23-2017 9:44 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 113 (820592)
09-23-2017 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
09-23-2017 9:44 AM


Voting for republicans
I have attached the NC Republican Party Platform from 2017. I will list a few things that would have to be repudiated before I could consider voting for any Republican:
https://convention.nc.gop/...the-2017-Platform-Committee.pdf
" We support the right of all institutions, including hospitals and schools, to refuse to provide contraceptive, abortion, or other services of procedures inconsistent with their religious tenets."
"even as we believe that marriage, as the union of one man and one woman must be upheld as the national standard"
"We support the marriage amendment as part of the North Carolina Constitution and encourage all efforts to defend it"
"We oppose public school-based health clinics that provide referrals, counseling and related services for abortion and contraception"
"We support efforts to ensure that habitual drug users are not on public assistance rolls."
"We reaffirm our support of voter ID and the repeal of straight-ticket voting."
"We support partisan elections for all offices."
"Suppliers and consumers of illegal drugs should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law."
The above list is not exhaustive. There are even more items on the platform that are not facially unreasonable, but which have to be considered deal breakers because of the Republican spin on them.
And here is the catch-22. Once the candidate does repudiate all of that, he must have a reasonable answer to "Why the bleep are you a Republican"
For me, all of these issues would be deal breakers for politicians running for state-wide office. Many of them are deal breakers for local politicians. Now your own state's Republicans may not be as screwed up as North Carolina's but at least some of you have even more dicked up Republicans (are you feeling me Texans).
If I were to register for and vote in a Republican primary, my most likely motive is to select a loser that could not beat a Democrat. Your mileage may vary.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 09-23-2017 9:44 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Coragyps, posted 09-24-2017 11:26 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 09-26-2017 5:57 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 14 of 113 (820750)
09-26-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
09-25-2017 5:38 PM


What we currently have is certainly not working.
I can agree with that. But why would the Republican party be any easier to take over then the Democratic one?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 09-25-2017 5:38 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 113 (820752)
09-26-2017 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Rrhain
09-26-2017 3:51 AM


There is no such thing as a "good" Republican.
I have on a rare occasion found such a person. But generally speaking, in races for offices that are legitimately partisan, people who declare as Republican are trying to attract Republican voters using wedge issues. It has been nearly 60 years since a Republican wedge issue indicated anything I would have been comfortable supporting or overlooking. I can remember my dad once voting for a Republican candidate for governor over the Democrat Lester Maddox... and losing.
If you want a good candidate for president, you needed to have started voting for said candidate a dozen years ago when they were on the ballot for mayor. By the time you get to national office, it's a bit late to complain about the lack of people you'd like to vote for.
Well said. It is small wonder that the Democratic choices on the national level are so doggone poor. Republicans made a point of campaigning at the local and state level while they were losing national elections, and it seems to have paid off. Time for Democrats to build some of that same capital. If you want a choice in how that turns out, then you should either find some good progressive candidates or become one yourself.
Given the piss poor turnout Democrats have for elections other than presidential ones, if progressives are right that the lethargy is because of lack of excitement for the status quo, current democrats ought to be easy pickings.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Rrhain, posted 09-26-2017 3:51 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 113 (820763)
09-26-2017 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
09-26-2017 5:57 PM


Re: Voting for republicans -- in the primary
and I see no problem with a progressive (sorry Rhain) conservative taking these positions. Being progressive means moving forward not backward.
Except that some of those positions would be huge steps backward.
Let your principled conservative take those positions. I am not voting for him. And I notice you shortened my list. Was there anything on that list that was a deal breaker for you?
You appear to have given up hope. Good luck with the Republicans.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 09-26-2017 5:57 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by RAZD, posted 09-27-2017 9:22 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 113 (820831)
09-28-2017 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by LamarkNewAge
09-27-2017 5:20 PM


Re: Obama had 60 votes and could have made D.C. and Puerto Rico states.
He choose not to.
No, Obama did not choose to do make DC a state. DC is constitutionally barred from becoming a state. The constitution had to be amended just to give DC residents the right to vote. The president has no role in passing a constitutional amendment, other than asking for it.
Did you look into the facts before posting?
Democrats could have achieved so much during the super majority 2009-2011 congress.
The supermajority lasted only a few months. Weren't you here for that?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-27-2017 5:20 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-28-2017 3:40 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 113 (820882)
09-28-2017 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by RAZD
09-27-2017 9:22 PM


Re: Voting for republicans -- in the primary
"Again, if the gerrymandering guarantees that a republican candidate wins the district,"
Gerrymandering is an issue here. But a bigger issue is that Democrats do not show up to vote. The turnout for the last presidential election was over 65% in NC, but turnout for the prior election was in the low forties. In many districts, and interested democratic voting base could make some headway.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by RAZD, posted 09-27-2017 9:22 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by RAZD, posted 09-30-2017 8:40 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 113 (820901)
09-28-2017 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by LamarkNewAge
09-28-2017 3:40 PM


Re: Obama had 60 votes and could have made D.C. and Puerto Rico states.
"It is in no way certain that the Supreme Court would not allow Washington D.C. statehood."
Nothing is certain. However, the constitution is very clear on the issue.
"Kenneth Star says that it should be a state according to the constitution"
Starr is correct slightly more often than you. Show me where you think that the constitution says that DC should be a state.
"There are lots of arguments for it being constitutional, and it is based on many things stated in the past."
Make your best argument.
ABE:
I researched this a bit, and Ken Starr opined only on whether DC could be a Congression District with voting Congress folk and not on whether DC could be a state. The constitution, in addition to making DC not a state, says that representatives come from states.
Starr argues that the Constitution gives Congress the power to make laws for DC, so they can do whatever they want regardless of the Constitution says. That argument fails to understand that what Congress does for DC affects the rest of us.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-28-2017 3:40 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 113 (820949)
09-29-2017 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by RAZD
09-29-2017 6:38 AM


Re: Obama had 60 votes and could have made D.C. and Puerto Rico states.
Why should Obama have wasted time on whether or not DC and Puerto Rico etc would be states,
That is a fair question. Over the years, lots of folks in Obama's coalition have asked why their specific needs were not first instead of healthcare. Promoters of gay rights, sound immigration policy, and yes of statehood have all asked the question.
As ought to be evident now, healthcare is a fundamental concern to a far larger group of people than most people were willing to acknowledge at the time. That and the need to deal with a struggling economy easily explain why Obama made the choices he did.
That's all logical. But you don't have to accept that. As one alternative, you can listen to yet another ridiculous conspiracy theory from LNA, the man who has had millions of conversations with Black people.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by RAZD, posted 09-29-2017 6:38 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 113 (821008)
09-30-2017 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by RAZD
09-30-2017 8:40 AM


Re: Voting for candidates -- in the republican primary
Which is a failure of the DNC and the neolib wing (Hillary etc)
I know that you hate all things Hilary, but she is not responsible for folks not showing up to local elections for good candidates. The problem predates her run for president anyway. The problem dates back at least as far to when Republicans managed to bet enough seats to redraw the Congressional maps that we have to live with now.
People hate corporate sponsorship of candidates because they see this as corruption.
As if the Republicans are less corporate.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by RAZD, posted 09-30-2017 8:40 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by RAZD, posted 09-30-2017 12:19 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 113 (821017)
09-30-2017 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by RAZD
09-30-2017 12:19 PM


Re: Voting for candidates -- in the republican primary
The difference between corporatist republicans and corporate appeasing DNC republican-lite DINO's is too small to ascertain any benefit to vote for as far as working people are concerned.
You seem to be missing the point. "Corporateness" would not seem to the reason why republicans are kicking democrat booty in off cycle elections dating back for quite a bit. The republicans are just as corporate.
What she promised was 4 more years of Obama deadlock corporatism
I seem to recall Obama winning two presidential elections. You aren't making much sense with regards to explaining a long, pre Obama history of people not turning out to vote for Democrats in non-presidential elections. I would have much preferred more of the same over what we got. Rational democrats should have figured out the same.
Sounds to me like you are just rehashing your issues with Bernie not getting the nomination. Again.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by RAZD, posted 09-30-2017 12:19 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by RAZD, posted 09-30-2017 4:17 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 45 by Rrhain, posted 10-02-2017 2:29 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 113 (821426)
10-07-2017 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by anglagard
10-07-2017 1:05 AM


Re: Voting for republicans
I know how difficult it is to challenge the stranglehold on West Texas rural areas the Republican Party has
Some places are just out of reach of the Democratic party as it is currently configured. Some strategy is needed to reach them, but if the strategy is to become more like the currently configured Republicans, for me that is totally unacceptable.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by anglagard, posted 10-07-2017 1:05 AM anglagard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by RAZD, posted 10-07-2017 10:55 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 113 (821696)
10-10-2017 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by RAZD
10-07-2017 10:55 AM


Re: Voting for republicans
"Some places are just out of reach of the Democratic party as it is currently configured. Some strategy is needed to reach them, but if the strategy is to become more like the currently configured Republicans, for me that is totally unacceptable."
RAZD replies:
"Agreed, and that is why we need to encourage more variety within the GOP primaries to get alternative ideas into the mix. Maybe not in Texas but certainly in swing states and marginal states."
In principle, we agree. In practice, you have already indicated that you would tolerate things from a faux Republican that I personally consider to be deal breakers.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by RAZD, posted 10-07-2017 10:55 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2017 7:05 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 113 (821722)
10-11-2017 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by RAZD
10-11-2017 7:05 AM


Re: Voting for republicans options in the primaries
"Curiously, I lived in Mississippi for a while, and the democrat party there was like the Massachusetts republicans, imho, so they have already moved in that direction to get elected."
From Wikipedia:
"The Mississippi Democratic Party holds one of the eight statewide offices and no majority in either legislative chambers. Mississippi Democrats hold one of the state's four U.S. House seats, and none of the state's U.S. Senate Seats.
Democrats hold 56 out of 122 seats in the Mississippi House of Representatives and 20 out of 52 seats in the Mississippi Senate."
Hardly a model to follow... No thanks.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2017 7:05 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2017 3:01 PM NoNukes has replied

  
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