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Author Topic:   Decline And Fall Of The American Empire
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 130 of 170 (820475)
09-21-2017 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by New Cat's Eye
09-21-2017 10:31 AM


Value Of Trees
I bought the land outright, no thought about the trees. The land had a value of 100 bucks to me.
Then later somebody came along and offered the money for the rights to the timber. Now, the land has more value to me - solely from the rights to the trees, not even the trees themselves.
Now that I know that the timber is worth money too, the land has even more value to me.
Your value can only increase through another persons labor. The client also had to work (or someone did) in order to offer $200.00 to you.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-21-2017 10:31 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 143 of 170 (820499)
09-21-2017 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Stile
09-21-2017 1:41 PM


Re: Competition
stile writes:
What about when someone buys the rights to CE's lumber for $200, then the other neighbor buys it off that guy for $300?
Then the first guy buys it back for $400?
Then he sells it to his brother for $50?
And then a lady buys it off him for $75?
The rights of the lumber have changed hands... 5 times.
Each time the money was paid for the rights of the lumber.
No one has done any labor yet (the trees still stand).
Has the value for the rights to the lumber changed at all over this example?
I think that it increased, decreased, and then increased again?
I think that ringo is claiming that labor was initially required to give everyone enough value to make a trade or a purchase. In a depression, a guy might be willing to dig a ditch for $5.00 because he needs value in his pocket for food, etc.
If the value of a cashier shrunk from what I am getting paid to $5.00 an hour, ringo likely would cheer the rising tide in that now millions more can work, but the value would get tougher for me, since $5.00 wont buy me much of anything...trees, food, or fidgets.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Stile, posted 09-21-2017 1:41 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Stile, posted 09-21-2017 3:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 146 of 170 (821248)
10-04-2017 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by ringo
09-22-2017 11:37 AM


Re: Competition
ringo writes:
Follow the money. Where did it come from?
Trying to stay within our topic of the decline.
OK lets take the Great Depression. Everyone was out of work. Why couldnt they just start working and create more money through their labor?
Back then was deflation. Now its the opposite. Money has to keep moving to be of any value. Like you said, the hurricanes provide work for lots of labor. But the taxpayer pays. The social security future recipient pays. seems like we cant save anymore. We are always having to pay it forward.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by ringo, posted 09-22-2017 11:37 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 3:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 162 of 170 (821672)
10-10-2017 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by ringo
10-10-2017 11:38 AM


Steering Back On Topic
Ringo,to New Cats Eye writes:
What I've done is point out the flaws in your examples.
Why not get back on topic and point out the flaws in the American Empire so that we can correct them before we implode and destroy my retirement!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by ringo, posted 10-10-2017 11:38 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by ringo, posted 10-10-2017 12:28 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 164 of 170 (821678)
10-10-2017 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by ringo
10-10-2017 12:28 PM


Re: Steering Back On Topic
I'm 65 and can't afford to retire, so I'm not too worried about your retirement.
Well I'm 58, have Type II Diabetes and sleep apnea and am dependent on something external to help me. I would love to help you with your retirement if i had more energy and the means to do so.
The American Empire may not last longer than I do. Perhaps I need to pray for the strength to tolerate being broke as you are, and the strength to work until I drop.
There are some things that we cannot do for ourselves.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by ringo, posted 10-10-2017 12:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by ringo, posted 10-10-2017 12:43 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 166 of 170 (821689)
10-10-2017 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by ringo
10-10-2017 12:43 PM


Re: Steering Back On Topic
I think that this is probably the only advice I can honestly get. I don't really know where to vent my frustration, but perhaps I can vent through prayer as well. It's much easier to blame God and get that weight off of my shoulders.
What about America, though? Whether we all built the ark ourselves or not, it has a large hole and is sinking fast.
I am thankful to have a warm house and internet service so that I even CAN vent! I best count my blessings rather than my losses.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by ringo, posted 10-10-2017 12:43 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by jar, posted 10-10-2017 4:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 168 by ringo, posted 10-11-2017 3:09 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 169 of 170 (821759)
10-11-2017 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by ringo
10-11-2017 3:09 PM


Re: Steering Back On Topic
You have several choices. You can argue about who made the hole as you watch the boat sink. Or you can get out before it sinks. Or, as a last resort, you could even try to fix the hole.
well, they always argue about who made the hole. That's politics.
And it seems only the rich have any lifeboats...the rest of us are in 3rd class and will sink or swim.
Hopefully, there will be a solution to fixing the hole, but nobody in 3rd class has any money. The ones with money are standing next to the lifeboats collecting interest before the ship sinks.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by ringo, posted 10-11-2017 3:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by ringo, posted 10-12-2017 11:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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