Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,336 Year: 3,593/9,624 Month: 464/974 Week: 77/276 Day: 5/23 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why did God forgive our sins?
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 407 of 479 (729612)
06-15-2014 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by Phat
06-15-2014 3:04 PM


Re: The Freewill Defense
Phat writes:
God was responsible for potentialized evil. satan the fallen angel was responsible for actualized (chosen) evil. As are we.
We are responsible for the evil we do. How are we responsible for great white sharks and flesh-eating bacteria?
Edited by ringo, : Too many esses, my Preciousss.
Edited by ringo, : Cross-eyed keyboard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Phat, posted 06-15-2014 3:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by Phat, posted 06-16-2014 3:43 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 412 of 479 (729644)
06-16-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 408 by Phat
06-16-2014 3:43 AM


Re: The Freewill Defense
Phat writes:
People need to stop blaming God for evil and instead accept that we are responsible to avoid it.
So where does God come in at all? What business is it of His to forgive us? If we are solely responsible for our actions, what good is His forgiveness?
Phat writes:
It may well be that evil was created to tempt us.
To tempt us to play with great white sharks and flesh-eating bacteria?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Phat, posted 06-16-2014 3:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Phat, posted 06-16-2014 11:53 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 416 of 479 (729653)
06-16-2014 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Phat
06-16-2014 11:53 AM


Re: The Freewill Defense
Phat writes:
My premise was that evil was allowed to exist in order to temper us...to make us stronger.
How does playing with great white sharks and flesh-eating bacteria make us stronger?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
What business is it of His to forgive us?
You want your employees to be bonded. You want them to have clean records.
But nobody does have a clean record. If they did there would be nothing to forgive. And expunging the record serves no purpose if God is both the record-keeper and the employer.
Phat writes:
We cant do it on our own and He cant do it for us. The process requires communion.
So back to my original question: Why do people who claim to commune with God often seem to be completely clueless? Why do they worship the messenger while vigorously ignoring the message?
Edited by ringo, : Fpellng.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Phat, posted 06-16-2014 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 424 of 479 (729703)
06-17-2014 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by Phat
06-17-2014 11:57 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Phat writes:
If we humans are charged to try and do our best, what insight can possibly be had through viewing God as a flawed character in a book rather than the One whom we trust and whom we commune with and whom gives us wisdom so that we actually can do our best on a daily basis?
Because, as I've said more than once, those who claim to commune with God, who claim they have God-given wisdom, don't seem to have much sense. The wisdom which results from communion seems more like a subtraction than an addition.
Edited by ringo, : Punctuation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Phat, posted 06-17-2014 11:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Phat, posted 10-15-2017 12:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 434 of 479 (821931)
10-15-2017 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Phat
10-15-2017 12:19 PM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Phat writes:
If we humans are charged to try and do our best, what insight can possibly be had through viewing God as a flawed character in a book rather than the One Whom we trust and commune with and Who gives us wisdom so that we actually can do our best on a daily basis?
It's because the God character is unreliable that we can only rely on ourselves.
Phat writes:
So does that mean that you, unlike tangle, are not open to communion?
What I'm saying is that in many people who claim to have "communion", it seems to be a negative effect. I'm not open to negative effects.
Phat writes:
IIRC you just wanted to be left alone. Kinda like riding out the hurricane and refusing the rescue helicopter.
But in your scenario, the helicopter crewman puts a gun to my head and says, "Come with us or else." Given that choice, I definitely would rather ride out the hurricane.
Phat writes:
... assume for a moment that you are having beef with the God Who actually may exist...would you have beef with Him?
If there is a God who actually exists, He doesn't have to be afraid to show Himself to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Phat, posted 10-15-2017 12:19 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 437 of 479 (821936)
10-15-2017 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by Phat
10-15-2017 2:24 PM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Phat writes:
Dont you believe that we will survive or find a way to do so....
I believe mankind will become extinct - but not in my lifetime.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 10-15-2017 2:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 447 of 479 (822071)
10-18-2017 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 445 by Phat
10-18-2017 12:27 PM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Phat writes:
And there is a difference between measurable probability which has real criteria and a fanciful hypothetical probability of which there is no way to measure and thus quantify. The latter is incorrectly called luck or chance and there is no such a thing, in the absence of solid and verifiable numbers behind it.
The outcome has nothing to do with whether or not we can quantify the probability. Getting a particular outcome is pure luck whether you can predict it or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by Phat, posted 10-18-2017 12:27 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Phat, posted 10-19-2017 2:25 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 452 of 479 (822108)
10-19-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Phat
10-19-2017 2:25 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Phat writes:
... consider that chance in and of itself has no power in and of itself to cause any sort of an outcome.
Nobody said it did.
Phat writes:
Thus to say that something happens by chance is really saying nothing.
Nonsense. It's important to distinguish between situations where we can predict exact outcomes and situations where we can't. If you fire a shotgun out the window, you can predict that there will be a bad outcome. If you bet on seven, you can't. Betting depends on luck. Firearms often do not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Phat, posted 10-19-2017 2:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by Pressie, posted 10-20-2017 6:17 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 454 by Pressie, posted 10-20-2017 6:18 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024