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Author Topic:   Elections are won in the primaries
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 59 of 113 (821724)
10-11-2017 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by NoNukes
10-11-2017 2:48 PM


Re: Voting for republicans options in the primaries
you
don't
get
it
Sorry

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2017 2:48 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2017 5:35 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 64 of 113 (821767)
10-12-2017 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by NoNukes
10-11-2017 5:35 PM


Re: Voting for republicans options in the primaries
You don't seem to get it. I am not going to vote for or pursue pushing a Republican ...
It's not a republican, its a progressive candidate running in the republican primary ... because whoever wins the republican primary is virtually guaranteed to win the general election.
Gerrymandering shifts the actual election to the primary, so to beat the nasty republicans you have to run in their primary ... and get all the democrat/liberal/progressive/independent/etc people in the district to register republican and vote in the primary for the faux republican candidate.
Sheesh.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 65 of 113 (821773)
10-12-2017 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by DC85
10-11-2017 5:51 PM


Re: Is "too liberal" even a thing in the US?
Sure it can start slow a few having success this way but you're talking about spoiling Bannon here and now. We need our "new" Republicans now.
Indeed. I've talked to some democrat party people about it but interest seems low. Maybe after they lose in 2018 and Bannon wins and things get worse they might start thinking.
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 67 of 113 (821828)
10-13-2017 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by anglagard
10-13-2017 2:46 AM


Re: Is "too liberal" even a thing in the US?
RAZD, I have been somewhat following this thread and feel I understand how your strategy may be successful under some circumstances. However, I believe those circumstances are not presently as universal as you may believe.
You are In Rhode Island, not West Texas, so I would like to point out some other factors that diminish the strategy you propose in my situation.
Both Texas and RI are more like the middle situation, gerrymandered to provide a majority in every district.
Texas is a lost cause in my book, I'm looking at states that are heavily gerrymandered so that a minority wins, the right hand situation. Like North Carolina and Michigan.
An independent commission charged with creating districts so that representatives reflected the diversity of the population would make it so there would be two yellow districts and three green districts, as any other alternative favors one party over the other disproportionately to the population.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by anglagard, posted 10-13-2017 2:46 AM anglagard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by DC85, posted 10-13-2017 4:12 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 70 of 113 (821935)
10-15-2017 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by DC85
10-13-2017 4:12 PM


Texas ...
Texas is HEAVILY gerrymandered and isn't nearly a given for a "conservative" in parts of the state as people think it is.
So there is hope. And another place to try Faux Republican Progressive candidates ...
But my personal opinion is that districts need to be abolished altogether and a different metric used to select representatives, one that will reflect the diversity of the population, for instance one that results in half women and half men, one that reflects minorities in proportion to their population, one that reflects different economic levels.
Perhaps by lottery ... with 3 year term, 1/3rd chosen every year.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

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This message is a reply to:
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 Message 71 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2017 3:36 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 72 of 113 (821953)
10-16-2017 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Rrhain
10-16-2017 3:36 AM


Re: Texas ...
Your strategy is to put up a candidate whom you know is going to sell you out immediately and will continue to sell you out in order to maintain their ability to get elected all because you hope they might vote a certain way on a certain bill? A bill that will likely never make it to the floor due to the leadership that this fake candidate installed?
Sorry, no, that is not the strategy. The strategy is to elect a progressive to the house by winning the republican primary. The progressive would side with the democrats not the republicans.
How else do you expect to win back a majority in the house?
Enjoy

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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2017 3:36 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by NoNukes, posted 10-16-2017 1:25 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 77 by Rrhain, posted 10-17-2017 3:06 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 74 of 113 (821968)
10-16-2017 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by NoNukes
10-16-2017 1:25 PM


Re: Texas ...
No that isn't what you are trying to do. Instead you are selling off a good chunk of progressive positions in the hope of electing someone less Republicany.
Curious how people are telling me what I mean, especially when it isn't true.
The idea is to elect a progressive. Period. The idea is that the election essentially takes place in the primary because of gerrymandering -- so bring your candidate to the republican primary and run against one or more (the more the merrier) republicans.
Have everyone in the district vote in the republican primary. Yes there are more republican voters than liberal/progressive voters because of gerrymandering, but IF you can take some votes from the republican OR the republican ticket is split THEN a progressive/liberal could win the primary ... and then you have one or two democrat/progressive/liberal candidates in the general election.
Winning the republican primary doesn't make you a republican.
It is a simple plot to subvert the gerrymandered districting by taking the election to the primary.
Sadly I am astounded that people I regard as above average intelligence can't see beyond party labels ...
Enjoy

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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by NoNukes, posted 10-16-2017 1:25 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by xongsmith, posted 10-16-2017 2:55 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 10-17-2017 1:48 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 78 of 113 (821996)
10-17-2017 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by xongsmith
10-16-2017 2:55 PM


Re: Texas ...
RAZD, they won't ever get elected in the R primaries. The talk radios will kill them before arrival. You're counting on no brains from the R side.
So the answer is to curl up on your couch and wish republicans would all die?
Or do you try to do something about it, try to change the dialogue.
Talk radio will only talk to the radio heads, not the general public, the people who are tired of congress (low approval rating) and want some progress.
What is your solution or do you just give up.
Enjoy

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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by xongsmith, posted 10-16-2017 2:55 PM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 10-17-2017 11:57 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 79 of 113 (821997)
10-17-2017 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Rrhain
10-17-2017 3:06 AM


Re: Texas ...
And you honestly believe that a Republican is going to vote for a Democrat for Speaker of the House?
Exactly how does a Republican being elected to the Senate result in a Democrat becoming the leader of the Senate? That isn't how the rules work. Whichever party has the majority automatically gains leadership. ...
By doing it in enough districts that the democrats get a majority.
Cleaning up the Republican Party isn't going to happen by tricking them into voting for a progressive. ...
Still not the plan.
Enjoy

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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Rrhain, posted 10-17-2017 3:06 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Rrhain, posted 10-18-2017 3:23 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 80 of 113 (821999)
10-17-2017 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by NoNukes
10-17-2017 1:48 AM


Re: Texas ...
You've already admitted to tolerating stuff I find intolerable. Your progressives aren't all that progressive.
Again you are blinding yourself, the plan is to elect someone not-a-republican in the republican primary. I would call that person a progressive republican for the purpose of the primary. Once you have that then, either that person wins the general or a democrat wins the general. In either case you then have not-a-republican in the house.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 10-17-2017 1:48 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by NoNukes, posted 10-18-2017 10:50 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 82 of 113 (822034)
10-17-2017 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ringo
10-17-2017 11:57 AM


Re: Texas ...
The answer is to vote against Republicans.
In the republican primary for a progressive candidate running against the republicans in the primary where the district is gerrymandered to essentially guarantee the republican candidate picked in the primary will win the general election.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 10-17-2017 11:57 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Rrhain, posted 10-18-2017 3:29 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 10-18-2017 3:20 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 85 of 113 (822049)
10-18-2017 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Rrhain
10-18-2017 3:23 AM


Re: Texas ...
wrong again.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Rrhain, posted 10-18-2017 3:23 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Rrhain, posted 10-19-2017 1:38 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 86 of 113 (822050)
10-18-2017 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Rrhain
10-18-2017 3:29 AM


Re: Texas ...
and still wrong.
This is getting entertaining, seeing how wrong you can be over a very simple concept.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 88 of 113 (822066)
10-18-2017 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by NoNukes
10-18-2017 10:50 AM


Still not getting it
Still
Not
Getting
It
But in those stacked districts, the Republicans compete on who can be the most unliberal. People are actually voting against universal health care and expanding the minimum wage even though they are as poor as dirt. Your strategy is to try to sneak a "progressive" by folks who apparently consider real liberals "commies."
My strategy is to get the liberal progressive voters in those districts to register as republicans to vote for a liberal progressive candidate in the republican primary. With one liberal progressive candidate against a field of republicans that split the republican votes, the liberal progressive could win the primary.
So simple. It makes gerrymandering work against them instead of for them.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by NoNukes, posted 10-18-2017 10:50 AM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Rrhain, posted 10-19-2017 1:44 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 93 of 113 (822098)
10-19-2017 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by ringo
10-18-2017 3:20 PM


Re: Texas ...
Is there a main clause in that "sentence"?
I was just extending what you said in Message 81
Enjoy

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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 10-18-2017 3:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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