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Author Topic:   Elections are won in the primaries
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 54 of 113 (821708)
10-11-2017 10:49 AM


Is "too liberal" even a thing in the US?
I was reading Politico (I know bad habit Are Democrats Headed for a McGovern Redux? - POLITICO Magazine) and they attempted to make what I see as blatantly absurd arguments comparing modern Democratic politics concerning Sanders politics to George McGovern's failed campaign 1972. This is a common fear in the party and it appears to be irrational.
1. It completely ignores the problems with the McGovern campaign including their horrible missteps with their Vice Presidential pick and assumes McGovern lost on policy.
2. It ignores modern polling on the issues it mentions including single payer and taxes (Which show the population to the left).
3. How come we never hear about Goldwater in reference to Republicans going to the right in a Libertarian economic fashion?

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2017 12:13 PM DC85 has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 56 of 113 (821719)
10-11-2017 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by RAZD
10-11-2017 12:13 PM


Re: Is "too liberal" even a thing in the US?
Are you arguing that say a progressive should run as a Republican? I have been saying this for some time, in fact it is easier to run as a Republican in some states than it is a Democrat.
quote:
universal healthcare, living minimum wage and paid family leave have strong cross-party support
They do, and poll 50% or above on all , putting them in the actual political center. (as opposed to the "Center" that is told about in The Beltway)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2017 12:13 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2017 2:48 PM DC85 has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 61 of 113 (821741)
10-11-2017 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by RAZD
10-11-2017 2:48 PM


Re: Is "too liberal" even a thing in the US?
quote:
Exactly, just as it is easier to run as a democrat than a republican in RI and MA, and so we have a lot of DINOs in the state legislature.
The big issue still comes back to organization and money, While Sanders proved small money can produce, you still need a backbone a core to orchestrate this on the level you're talking about. Sure it can start slow a few having success this way but you're talking about spoiling Bannon here and now. We need our "new" Republicans now.

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 Message 58 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2017 2:48 PM RAZD has replied

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 Message 65 by RAZD, posted 10-12-2017 7:40 AM DC85 has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 62 of 113 (821742)
10-11-2017 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by NoNukes
10-11-2017 5:35 PM


Re: Voting for republicans options in the primaries
quote:
You don't seem to get it. I am not going to vote for or pursue pushing a Republican who is going to act with other Republicans on some of the issues that you find tolerable. Because I find those positions intolerable.
Your mileage may vary.
You don't seem to get what he's saying. Rather run a progressive in a Republican primary and you spoil the primary as you can win after the vote splits far right /established
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

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 Message 60 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2017 5:35 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2017 7:39 PM DC85 has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 68 of 113 (821850)
10-13-2017 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by RAZD
10-13-2017 8:32 AM


Re: Is "too liberal" even a thing in the US?
Texas is a lost cause in my book, I'm looking at states that are heavily gerrymandered so that a minority wins
Texas is HEAVILY gerrymandered and isn't nearly a given for a "conservative" in parts of the state as people think it is.
( Civil rights groups descended on a San Antonio courthouse Monday to challenge the constitutionality of the state’s current redistricting maps and accuse Republican legislators of deliberately drawing them to dilute the voting power of minorities. )

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 Message 67 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2017 8:32 AM RAZD has replied

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 Message 69 by Coragyps, posted 10-13-2017 9:11 PM DC85 has not replied
 Message 70 by RAZD, posted 10-15-2017 2:41 PM DC85 has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 92 of 113 (822096)
10-19-2017 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by NoNukes
10-18-2017 10:50 AM


Re: Texas ...
Their platform is anything but progressive.
You are aware that at one time the Republicans WERE the progressive party, right? How do you suppose the change happened?
But in those stacked districts, the Republicans compete on who can be the most unliberal
Ahhh but interestingly enough polling shows a good amount of Republicans are actually liberal on issues of economics. People in poverty in Alabama don't want tax cuts for the wealthy , that's just absurd. Hammer economics and you have a chance of winning,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by NoNukes, posted 10-18-2017 10:50 AM NoNukes has replied

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 Message 96 by NoNukes, posted 10-19-2017 9:40 AM DC85 has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 97 of 113 (822104)
10-19-2017 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by NoNukes
10-19-2017 9:40 AM


Re: Texas ...
And yet they vote for people who push that position all of the time, perhaps because they are getting other stuff they want, but I would not.
Indeed, why do you think Republicans focus so heavily on social issues while campaigning?(yet tend to ignore them mostly in office in favor of economics )
The BIG mistake Democrats in the south make is believing they need to be "moderate" on economics when no such voters exist, in fact the REAL center is to the left of what they call the "center" in DC.

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 Message 96 by NoNukes, posted 10-19-2017 9:40 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by NoNukes, posted 10-19-2017 12:03 PM DC85 has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 100 of 113 (822124)
10-19-2017 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by NoNukes
10-19-2017 12:03 PM


Re: Texas ...
Large swaths of the population are wage earners and wage payers who accept the idea that a living wage is socialism and won't vote for it.
Polling shows a different story on these deep red areas. I found two polls one with national bipartisan support for raising wages,
http://thehill.com/...majority-supports-raising-minimum-wage
the other just from South Carolina where a resounding 2/3 support a minimum wage increase
http://www.thestate.com/...ogs/the-buzz/article13757501.html

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 Message 101 by RAZD, posted 10-19-2017 4:41 PM DC85 has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 103 of 113 (822133)
10-19-2017 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by RAZD
10-19-2017 4:41 PM


Re: Texas ...
This is why the democrats/DNC have been shooting themselves in the foot since 2014 when they could have run on a living minimum wage platform.
You get similar results for universal healthcare (medicare for all) and paid family leave.
I would argue much longer than 2014 these issues would have worked in their favor. I can't see how they don't calculate these polls.
The problem seems to be Democrats running as Republican light or "economic moderates" ( I argue the center is to the left) and when people are given the choice of two candidates that are the same on economic issues ,they choose based on social and other issues.
We are at a time where people's financial well being is top priority , yet Democrats are seemingly terrified to go the route on issues of wages universal healthcare and paid family leave.
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by RAZD, posted 10-19-2017 4:41 PM RAZD has replied

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 Message 109 by RAZD, posted 10-20-2017 8:54 AM DC85 has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 106 of 113 (822140)
10-19-2017 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Rrhain
10-19-2017 9:02 PM


Re: Still not getting it
What did Harry S Truman say about this very thing? And when did he say it? To whom? Why? I know, I haven't mentioned it until now, but this is not exactly some obscure thing.
Actually he was talking about literal Democrats trying to act like Republicans to win (like they do in the south today) Not at all the same thing.
quote:
If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Rrhain, posted 10-19-2017 9:02 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Rrhain, posted 10-20-2017 9:04 PM DC85 has not replied

  
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