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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 215 of 606 (821538)
10-09-2017 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Granny Magda
10-09-2017 8:08 AM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
I didn't take notes at the conference; now I wish I had. I mostly wanted to get an overview of this field I've known nothing about.
You say Bollinger lied about this or that. He didn't speak at the conference and I haven't heard any lies so I can't respond. I'm not in a position to judge what he said about chemo. You say it's bollocks. I don't know. I didn't hear it at the conference.
I'm just tired of the attitude here, this smearing of anybody who doesn't toe the status quo line.
I've seen some interviews by Griffin that are quite compelling. Sorry you don't think so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Granny Magda, posted 10-09-2017 8:08 AM Granny Magda has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 218 of 606 (821549)
10-09-2017 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Granny Magda
10-09-2017 9:00 AM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
Beggin yur pahdin but I don't trust what you told me, perhaps it's out of context, perhaps he's since changed his mind, I don't know, but I don't trust anything you tell me at this point. Sawry. I'm taking sides against you, sawry. I also don't care if someone misspeaks once in a while, it doesn't damn a whole movement as you seem to desire. I will discover eventually where the truth lies and I really don't need your help for that. This conference raised lots of issues I want to think about and your eagerness to blast the whole thing with personal accusations is repugnant to me.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 217 by Granny Magda, posted 10-09-2017 9:00 AM Granny Magda has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 220 of 606 (821589)
10-09-2017 5:13 PM


the fungus guy
I looked at Bollinger's site and failed to find the statistic you are talking about.
But I came back to comment on the fungus guy. I looked him up too and at first glance his idea does look pretty wacky. But a review of his book suggested that the idea of baking soda simply agrees with the general understanding that cancer requires an acidic body environment to grow and that whatever you can do to make it slightly alkaline will discourage the growth of cancer. I don't know if this is something only the "alt-med" people say or it's common knowledge, but it was said a lot by many at the conference. But someone also pointed out that it depends on where the cancer is located whether baking soda can even reach it.
Also I don't get the connection with candida yet.
But I've had an interesting personal experience recently I'd like to report. I've been sort of trying the high starch diet I recently learned about, not really following their protocol but making potatoes my main food followed by salad and carrot juice, though I deviate into other things that are off the diet too so I can't say I'm really following it. For one thing fat is not allowed and I really can't eat potatoes or salad without olive oil at least.
Anyway, I started noticing after a few days that I no longer had the candida rash I sometimes get on my abdomen these days (due to slightly high blood sugar that isn't quite Type 2 diabetes yet and I hope won't ever be). I usually use Nystatin to cure it, but maybe potatoes will do it? '
Potatoes are an alkaline forming food, and so are most vegetables so salad would also be alkaline. And one other thing, when I deviated into eating an egg salad sandwich on pita bread I got ferocious acid reflux, which I'm also prone to and for some reason I felt like eating a carrot, because I had this feeling it would help, and guess what, the acid totally disappeared. Oh I also had coffee which I'm trying to stop or at least cut back on, and that is a strong acid-former, or maybe it's the cream in it, or both? More experimenting needed.
Anecdote anecdote but I've never had this happen before and although it isn't a peer-reviewed study I'm likely to repeat the experiment and see if it holds up.
Alkaline potatoes, alkaline carrots, candida goes away, acid reflux goes away. If there is a connection between candida and cancer and alkalinity discourages candida and I can get rid of acid reflux by eating a raw carrot, I can see why someone might connect these conditions. Even if he's wrong in some important way I have the impression there is logic to his thinking.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 221 of 606 (821591)
10-09-2017 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Granny Magda
10-09-2017 12:08 PM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
I don't see that anybody is lying to cancer patients. I don't even see anyone discouraging conventional treatment, though there may be some that go overboard that I've missed. Most are just suggesting that "overdosing on nutrition" be tried when there is still time for it to see if it works before going ahead with the chemo or whatever, and some of the testimonials include both standard treatment and nutritional treatments.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 222 of 606 (821601)
10-09-2017 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
10-09-2017 5:13 PM


Re: the fungus guy
Simoncini's baking soda treatment for cancer has caused the death of at least a couple of women. He injects the baking soda directly into the tumor. In one case the woman died of alkalosis, too much alkalinity. The other died of cardiac arrest.
Obviously he was doing something very wrong, in one case overdosing the patient with baking soda and I'm not sure in the other case.
I'm not sure why with his record people would still trust him, but apart from his practice there seems to be good reason to aim for higher body alkalinity, though this is usually understood to be just a small degree of alkalinity, and even reducing the acidity without arriving at actual alkalinity is supposed to make a difference. Even a diet of mostly vegetables could accomplish that, and in case after case people following such a diet report shrinkage of tumors on scans after months, even in some cases weeks, on such a diet. There's no need for heavy doses of baking soda in any form, whether taken orally or injected.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 231 of 606 (821658)
10-10-2017 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by New Cat's Eye
10-09-2017 9:07 PM


Re: the fungus guy
So, your body is made of tissues. Those are made of proteins. Proteins are made of amino acids.
You are literally made of acids. If your body became alkaline you would die - from the acids you are made of turning into salts.
Your stomach is full of really strong acid. Any alkaline food you eat will be immediately neutralized and no longer be alkaline - you can't make your body more alkaline, in general, and you cannot make it more alkaline with food or water.
Well, that was quite a blast of assertions that mostly sound to me like some kind of logic game. A plant-based diet just does increase alkalinity in the body, and since that diet has many beneficial effects on health the alkalinity is regarded as a healthy factor in itself. Or you could say it decreases acidity.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 236 of 606 (821787)
10-12-2017 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by Granny Magda
10-11-2017 3:19 PM


The evidence isn't so hot on either side
I know you think Bollinger is lying or just crazy but I'm still willing to hold out the possibility that he calculated his statistic from sources that you read differently, that he could be wrong but that he is most likely not lying or trying to deceive anyone, that he believes it. It would help if he'd spelled out his thinking of course and I wish he had.
But this is a problem on both sides of this. As ProtoTypical pointed out, the defenders of the conventional treatments aren't supporting their claims either, but go on prescribing stuff that doesn't work.
I agree that it would be wonderful if every claim of treatment efficacy on both sides was carefully tested by an independent agency. I really wish that were always the case, because we need to know what we are being given so that we have a reasonable choice when we need help.
You don't even try to support your claim that the idea that alkalinity is unfriendly to cancer is "completely untrue." Have there been any studies that confirm this claim?
Even someone who is completely wrong may have good motives you know, and mistakes can happen too, and whose job is it to police these things? First there should be some definite proof that a claim is wrong and then there should be legal consequences if it's proved wrong and yet continues to be practiced.
Since you even acknowledge that "Big Pharma" isn't exactly trustworthy, why are you objecting to others who are of the same opinion? Why shouldn't there be attempts to treat diseases without the poisons of most drugs? Especially since most of the "alt-med" treatments are pretty benign natural nutritional treatments?
And unfortunately there really is some reason to think research has been fudged to justify Big Pharma's claims, which are just as deadly as any claims made by the alt-med people it seems to me, and once all the facts of the efficacy of standard treatment are shown my guess would be it has a far worse record than the nutrition movement. Obviously what is needed is a completely independent agency to test these things. But since Big Money can often buy the results of research, and Big Money could presumably be on either side, it would have to be a really well designed system.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : typos
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Granny Magda, posted 10-11-2017 3:19 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Granny Magda, posted 10-13-2017 3:16 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 238 of 606 (821846)
10-13-2017 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Granny Magda
10-13-2017 3:16 PM


Re: The evidence isn't so hot on either side
You talk an aggressive (and slanderous) line but I don't find it convincing Granny. I'm going with carrot juice and whatever else is on the diet if I have to choose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Granny Magda, posted 10-13-2017 3:16 PM Granny Magda has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 241 of 606 (821854)
10-13-2017 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Granny Magda
10-13-2017 4:52 PM


Re: The evidence isn't so hot on either side
I'm sure I'd accept surgery, just not the chemo or radiation. Maybe if I were younger I'd do it since of course I'd be pressured into it.
I believe the nutrition people and don't find you convincing, not much more to say.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Granny Magda, posted 10-13-2017 4:52 PM Granny Magda has replied

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 Message 242 by Granny Magda, posted 10-13-2017 5:43 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 243 of 606 (821865)
10-13-2017 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by Granny Magda
10-13-2017 5:43 PM


Re: The evidence isn't so hot on either side
I haven't seen much in the way of "points" from you, mostly just loud namecalling to discredit the opposition. I think the "alt-med" people are just a lot more persuasive than you are, and I didn't see ANY "scare tactics" by anybody at that conference. Your going on about Mike Evans is ludicrous considering what I saw of him at the conference, a reasoned discussion of heavy metals in our environment. Makes your accusations look like the scare tactics.

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 Message 242 by Granny Magda, posted 10-13-2017 5:43 PM Granny Magda has replied

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 Message 244 by Granny Magda, posted 10-13-2017 8:32 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 245 of 606 (821877)
10-13-2017 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Granny Magda
10-13-2017 8:32 PM


Re: The evidence isn't so hot on either side
I don't know if he's wrong. All you've done is say it many times, in very insulting ways.
And he didn't say that at the conference.
I'll have to come back to the rest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Granny Magda, posted 10-13-2017 8:32 PM Granny Magda has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 246 of 606 (822056)
10-18-2017 9:13 AM


Scientific studies of nutrition
This looks like a very helpful source of information for sorting out all these questions about nutrition. It's all about scientific studies of the efficacy of diet and other factors related to specific diseases and health in general.
About NutritionFacts.org | NutritionFacts.org
So far I've only seen a few videos, which happen to show a strong positive effect on health and even on cancer from a plant-based diet. Carrots don't play a major role, and there's at least one study that suggests that juices don't work as well as whole foods either, but I'd point out that I haven't yet seen a study of the huge amounts of carrot juice used in the programs I've mentioned earlier.
Looks like a site to spend time on. Check it out.

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Stile, posted 10-18-2017 11:28 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 248 of 606 (822072)
10-18-2017 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Stile
10-18-2017 11:28 AM


This is about RESEARCH -- you know, SCIENCE. Heart disease a main focus
OK, I'll try another time to get it said more clearly and then try to stay away.
Did you even look at the link? I would guess not.
This is a doctor's website, yes an M.D., Dr. Michael Greger, who says he reads all the journals of nutrition and culls information for short videos he shows on his website, says he has thousands up by now. These are based on RESEARCH into nutrition, so those complaining that this thread is all about anecdotes should finally get some information they can appreciate.
He also isn't selling anything, the information is free, so those complaining that the presenters at the Truth About Cancer conference were all selling something, which supposedly compromised their information. can rest easy on that score.
So research into nutrition and its effects on health and diseases of all sorts.
About NutritionFacts.org | NutritionFacts.org
Greger says he got interested in nutrition in relation to disease, and in fact was inspired to become a doctor, by the example of his grandmother who had severe heart disease, had had many bypass surgeries, was in pain all the time and sitting in a wheelchair at the age of 65, when she decided to go on the Pritikin diet, and as he tells it, was out of her wheelchair in three weeks, and going on long walks. Her case is mentioned in Pritikin's book.
Yes there's an anecdote for you, but the rest of his site is his condensations of various research studies on nutrition.
Since his grandmother had heart disease, which he claims the Pritikin diet cured so that she actually lived another 31 years, I'd recommend that Pressie take a look at it because he says his own father has inoperable heart disease. So maybe he could also be helped by a plant based diet, giving up the meat and the fats, going for grains and vegetables. Just a thought.
I don't do pop at all, chips and pizza only once in a great while, no sugar, little in the way of any simple carbs or processed foods. But I do eat meat and too much fat and now I'm going to try to stop all that and maybe even get near to vegan for the sake of my health because although I may not be officially sick with anything in particular I'm overweight and I feel lousy.
I put this up when I discovered it because I thought it would provide the scientific framework the subject needs, and maybe be of help to someone else.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 250 of 606 (822123)
10-19-2017 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Faith
10-18-2017 3:41 PM


Cancer survivor on changed diet anecdote
I really do try to leave EvC but always something comes up that I want to post. Sorry about that.
What I want to post here now is a video I know is too long for anybody's interest at EvC though I think it's really interesting and worth the time myself. This is one of Chris Wark's interviews with a cancer survivor who did it all on changing her diet and lifestyle. He did this interview during the Truth About Cancer conference so it's quite recent.
Karen was diagnosed with some kind of lymphoma in 2005 and describes how she brought down her cancer indicators to zero over seven years of eating organic plants, using only organic fabrics and green products etc. The interesting thing about her story is that after the seven years she went on a vacation that tempted her back to her old way of eating, which she did for a couple of months, after which the cancer came back twice as strong as before. She went back on her plant based treatment regime and has no more cancer for the second time.
Yup another anecdote that means absolutely nothing of course. Oh well, maybe somebody will see its value and benefit from it.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 256 of 606 (822300)
10-22-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by Granny Magda
10-22-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Cancer survivor on changed diet anecdote
Karen describes in the video how she repeatedly underwent plasmapheresis, a distinctly non-alternative treatment, wherein the blood is removed, filtered and returned. This is a recognised therapy for treating the symptoms of WM. Yet somehow, you came away from that video with the impression that she used only alternative therapies. She didn't.
I just listened again to the first 18 minutes and she did not say that she "repeatedly" underwent plasmaphereis, she describes undergoing it ONCE, (somewhere around 11 on the counter) and only after her relapse from the two months' vacation which followed seven years of stability achieved ONLY on her changed diet and lifestyle. That's how I hear it, I don't see any mention of any other form of treatment than the alternative methods during those first seven years. Do you? She says that the blood cleansing did dramatically reduce her numbers, but that they climbed back up fairly rapidly, while going back on her diet brought them down to a stable level as it had before the relapse.
Yes her word was "stability" so I shouldn't have said anything to imply cure. I didn't MEAN cure anyway, I certainly did hear her say she would always have the cancer, but that she expected to stay on her diet regime and maintain that stability which is pretty much being cancer-free as long as she keeps it up.
As she described it the plasmapheresis was done ONCE only and did not bring about stability, it dropped the numbers only for a short period, but it took the changed diet and lifestyle to return her to stability.
So I believe you have misrepresented what she said.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Granny Magda, posted 10-22-2017 9:49 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
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