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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Dredge
Member
Posts: 703
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 481 of 639 (822381)
10-23-2017 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by RAZD
10-23-2017 9:42 AM


Re: Let me help
"RAZD" writes:

"Dredge" writes:

The fossil record reveals the miserable failure of Darwism's most fundamental prediction - gradualism. ...

Is false: (a) it is not "fundamental" and (b) Darwin also discussed periods of rapid change between periods of little change.


Of course gradualism is fundamental to ToE - does a fish grow a foot overnight?

Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by RAZD, posted 10-23-2017 9:42 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by Coyote, posted 10-24-2017 12:16 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 484 by JonF, posted 10-24-2017 8:21 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 485 by RAZD, posted 10-24-2017 8:48 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 486 by ringo, posted 10-24-2017 12:32 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 487 by Taq, posted 10-24-2017 2:01 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 488 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2017 9:07 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 703
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 482 of 639 (822382)
10-23-2017 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 480 by Dr Adequate
10-23-2017 11:12 AM


"DrAdequate" writes:


I mean that you are frequently prone to mendacity, that you have a persistent tendency to untruthfulness, that it is your habit and custom to perpetrate falsehoods, and that you have often been known to fib.


Is that good or bad?

Besides that, you didn't answer my question.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-23-2017 11:12 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 489 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2017 9:09 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6046
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 483 of 639 (822384)
10-24-2017 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

Do you really think you can defeat the theory of evolution with nonsense such as that? I mean, really?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4003
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 484 of 639 (822394)
10-24-2017 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
does a fish grow a foot overnight?

You have a real problem with English meanings. Gradualism in this context does not mean what you think.

gradualism:

quote:
In the natural sciences, gradualism is the theory which holds that profound change is the cumulative product of slow but continuous processes, often contrasted with catastrophism. The theory was proposed in 1795 by James Hutton, a Scottish geologist, and was later incorporated into Charles Lyell's theory of uniformitarianism. Tenets from both theories were applied to biology and formed the basis of early evolutionary theory.

Growing a foot overnight would be saltation.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19386
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 485 of 639 (822397)
10-24-2017 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


you're ignorance is showing again.
Of course gradualism is fundamental to ToE - does a fish grow a foot overnight?

ROFLOL ... do you mean growing 12 inches or growing a new appendage?

Individual growth rates have absolutely nothing to do with rates of population evolution and nothing to do with ToE.

Growing a new appendage would be the "hopeful monster" of creationist imaginary and false understanding of evolution.

Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

So the slow rate of gradualism during periods of relative stassis in a population, and the higher rate of gradualism during periods if punctuation in a population ... are still gradualism. Punk-eek is not the "hopeful monster" of fevered creationist imagination.

This is actually what Dawkin's argued in counter to Gould's punk-eek claim. Glad you sorted that out.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : clrty


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14117
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 486 of 639 (822410)
10-24-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Dredge writes:

- does a fish grow a foot overnight?


See "mutation". But it does take a while for the feet to spread out into a population.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 7302
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 487 of 639 (822412)
10-24-2017 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Dredge writes:

Of course gradualism is fundamental to ToE - does a fish grow a foot overnight?
Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

Does a fish species undergo rapid speciation events causing more rapid changes in phenotype? Yep. Does that falsify the theory of evolution? Nope. Both punctuated equilibria and gradualism fit just fine in the theory of evolution.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15997
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 488 of 639 (822435)
10-24-2017 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Of course gradualism is fundamental to ToE - does a fish grow a foot overnight?
Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

So in the sense in which you now mean gradualism, Darwin was absolutely right, Gould too is a gradualist, and the fossil record supports gradualism?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15997
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 489 of 639 (822436)
10-24-2017 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:32 PM


Is that good or bad?

Lying is bad, Dredge.

Besides that, you didn't answer my question.

Yes I did, Dredge. You asked what I meant. I told you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:32 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 703
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 490 of 639 (824288)
11-26-2017 6:27 AM


The geological and fossil record is not evidence of "evolution" but of successive divine creations that existed and were destroyed before the "six days" of creation described in Genesis. This creation we live in now will in turn be replaced by another creation - "a new heaven and a new earth" mentioned in Revelation 21.
Replies to this message:
 Message 491 by RAZD, posted 11-26-2017 9:05 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 492 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-26-2017 1:19 PM Dredge has responded
 Message 494 by Coragyps, posted 11-26-2017 6:19 PM Dredge has responded
 Message 495 by jar, posted 11-26-2017 8:14 PM Dredge has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19386
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 491 of 639 (824305)
11-26-2017 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 490 by Dredge
11-26-2017 6:27 AM


failure after failure after failure
... but of successive failed divine creations that existed and were destroyed ...

fixed it for you

... This creation we live in now will in turn be replaced ...

another failure

how many times before they get it right or they get fired for incompetence?


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2017 6:27 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15997
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 492 of 639 (824313)
11-26-2017 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 490 by Dredge
11-26-2017 6:27 AM


Well, that's a peculiar daydream, Dredge. Do you have any evidence for it? Or any conceivable explanation for God's motivations in behaving in such a way?

Talk us through this. Take the evolution of birds, for example. According to your notions, God kept creating one lot of birds, destroying them, and then replacing them with slightly less basal-dinosaur-y birds, yes? And then did that again and again, right?

When you talk about "successive creations" does that mean that every time he destroyed a batch of birds he also destroyed all the other species alive at that time, only to carefully put them back along with the new model birds?

Either way, why did he do all this? Presumably an omnipotent being knew what he was aiming for, why not just make modern birds to start with? The sole effect of his approach seems to be that he successfully fooled scientists into thinking that evolution had taken place. But why would he want to?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2017 6:27 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 493 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2017 3:57 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 496 by Dredge, posted 11-27-2017 3:04 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1604
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(5)
Message 493 of 639 (824322)
11-26-2017 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 492 by Dr Adequate
11-26-2017 1:19 PM



What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 492 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-26-2017 1:19 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5307
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 494 of 639 (824324)
11-26-2017 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 490 by Dredge
11-26-2017 6:27 AM


Now you are just yanking our chain. That is up into a Trumpian realm of absurdity.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2017 6:27 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29914
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 495 of 639 (824325)
11-26-2017 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 490 by Dredge
11-26-2017 6:27 AM


what a pathetic God Dredge markets
Dredge writes:

The geological and fossil record is not evidence of "evolution" but of successive divine creations that existed and were destroyed before the "six days" of creation described in Genesis. This creation we live in now will in turn be replaced by another creation - "a new heaven and a new earth" mentioned in Revelation 21.

What a truly pathetic little deity you try to sell; utterly incompetent and not even able to do anything successfully. Why would anyone even laugh at a God that is that pathetic and picayune? The best is to pity your God and you for buying such a worthless product.

Plus it's obvious you do not even believe in the Bible but rather like all Biblical Christians simply ignore what is written in the Bible stories.

Or maybe you are like most Bible Christians that have simply never honestly read the Bible?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2017 6:27 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
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