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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Dredge
Member
Posts: 632
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 481 of 489 (822381)
10-23-2017 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by RAZD
10-23-2017 9:42 AM


Re: Let me help
"RAZD" writes:

"Dredge" writes:

The fossil record reveals the miserable failure of Darwism's most fundamental prediction - gradualism. ...

Is false: (a) it is not "fundamental" and (b) Darwin also discussed periods of rapid change between periods of little change.


Of course gradualism is fundamental to ToE - does a fish grow a foot overnight?

Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by RAZD, posted 10-23-2017 9:42 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by Coyote, posted 10-24-2017 12:16 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 484 by JonF, posted 10-24-2017 8:21 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 485 by RAZD, posted 10-24-2017 8:48 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 486 by ringo, posted 10-24-2017 12:32 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 487 by Taq, posted 10-24-2017 2:01 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 488 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2017 9:07 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 632
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 482 of 489 (822382)
10-23-2017 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 480 by Dr Adequate
10-23-2017 11:12 AM


"DrAdequate" writes:


I mean that you are frequently prone to mendacity, that you have a persistent tendency to untruthfulness, that it is your habit and custom to perpetrate falsehoods, and that you have often been known to fib.


Is that good or bad?

Besides that, you didn't answer my question.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-23-2017 11:12 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 489 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2017 9:09 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6025
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 483 of 489 (822384)
10-24-2017 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

Do you really think you can defeat the theory of evolution with nonsense such as that? I mean, really?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

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If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3992
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 484 of 489 (822394)
10-24-2017 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
does a fish grow a foot overnight?

You have a real problem with English meanings. Gradualism in this context does not mean what you think.

gradualism:

quote:
In the natural sciences, gradualism is the theory which holds that profound change is the cumulative product of slow but continuous processes, often contrasted with catastrophism. The theory was proposed in 1795 by James Hutton, a Scottish geologist, and was later incorporated into Charles Lyell's theory of uniformitarianism. Tenets from both theories were applied to biology and formed the basis of early evolutionary theory.

Growing a foot overnight would be saltation.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19217
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 485 of 489 (822397)
10-24-2017 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


you're ignorance is showing again.
Of course gradualism is fundamental to ToE - does a fish grow a foot overnight?

ROFLOL ... do you mean growing 12 inches or growing a new appendage?

Individual growth rates have absolutely nothing to do with rates of population evolution and nothing to do with ToE.

Growing a new appendage would be the "hopeful monster" of creationist imaginary and false understanding of evolution.

Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

So the slow rate of gradualism during periods of relative stassis in a population, and the higher rate of gradualism during periods if punctuation in a population ... are still gradualism. Punk-eek is not the "hopeful monster" of fevered creationist imagination.

This is actually what Dawkin's argued in counter to Gould's punk-eek claim. Glad you sorted that out.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : clrty


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13874
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 486 of 489 (822410)
10-24-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Dredge writes:

- does a fish grow a foot overnight?


See "mutation". But it does take a while for the feet to spread out into a population.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 487 of 489 (822412)
10-24-2017 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Dredge writes:

Of course gradualism is fundamental to ToE - does a fish grow a foot overnight?
Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

Does a fish species undergo rapid speciation events causing more rapid changes in phenotype? Yep. Does that falsify the theory of evolution? Nope. Both punctuated equilibria and gradualism fit just fine in the theory of evolution.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 488 of 489 (822435)
10-24-2017 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Of course gradualism is fundamental to ToE - does a fish grow a foot overnight?
Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.

So in the sense in which you now mean gradualism, Darwin was absolutely right, Gould too is a gradualist, and the fossil record supports gradualism?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 489 of 489 (822436)
10-24-2017 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:32 PM


Is that good or bad?

Lying is bad, Dredge.

Besides that, you didn't answer my question.

Yes I did, Dredge. You asked what I meant. I told you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:32 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
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