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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Except that that's exactly what it was. Clinton had the biggest popular vote margin of a loser in the history of the country. That type of thing, something that's never happened before, is the very definition of an anomaly. And it's irrelevant, and boring, because ... she lost the election. She wasn't a noob that didn't know how the electoral college worked, so that's not a reason she lost. Let's list the reasons she lost: 1. She didn't appeal enough to voters in key states to win their electoral votes.2. Gerrymandering. 3. Voter suppression (voter ID laws, distribution of polling stations, etc). 4. Vote fixing (machine tampering etc). 5. The known vagaries of the electoral college. The way the system works, every vote for a candidate after they win the electoral votes for that state is irrelevant, wasted, and unimportant. The only one she had control over was the first. As a seasoned veteran of many elections and a manipulator of primary elections she had to be fully cognizant of the other reasons. Blaming people who voted for Jill Stein is as unreasonable, weak and pitiful as blaming voters that voted for Trump, not because they liked Trump, but because they though republicans were better than democrats. It also looks like a childlike hissy fit tantrum, rather than accepting the results and figuring out how to move forward. One thing seems pretty clear to me: winning a lot of votes above what was needed to win a state's electoral votes, while at the same time losing enough votes in key states so that you lose the election, means that the campaign energy was misplaced/misdirected/misspent. That falls clearly on the campaign management shoulders, not on the voters. Too much time in the wrong places and not enough time in the critical places. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... The idea that voters are not responsible for their votes, or for doing their homework before voting is not a position I find acceptable. ... Sadly many people rely on tv ads for their "research" and they'll pick candidates that fit their perception of reality without questioning it. But I don't think the numbers of people who regret their vote is large: if nothing else they will rationalize it to resolve cognitive dissonance.
Let's break this down a bit further. ... Okay. Reasons that Hillary did not appeal to some voters enough to gain their vote: 1. Wall Street speeches and the appearance of coddling Wall Street. Saying the laws we now have are good enough instead of bringing back Glass-Steagall new and improved.2. Promise to maintain the status quo (ie -- act like a 3rd Obama term) rather that do anything for working people. 3. Waffle on minimum wage (starting with $12/hr instead of $15/hr). 4. Waffle on healthcare for all, saying universal healthcare was impractical and we needed to settle for ACA. 5. Waffle on Native Rights regarding the NoDAPL issue. 6. Cared more about rich donors than working people. etc etc etc She had many opportunities to take a strong committed stand on these and didn't. It seemed like she was following rather than leading. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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1) Is not immediately negatively affected by Trump's positions and actions White, male, employed, privileged.
2) Is immediately negatively affected by Democratic positions and actions, but would very much like them to adjust their current way of doing things and get back to focusing on traditional Democratic positions and actions. Personal economics will always be more important to voters than general global issues. This is why a living minimum wage and universal healthcare are winners.
People lose their jobs. Some recover just fine. Others are not as lucky (or 'prepared' perhaps) Clinton's address to coal miners as case in point. She lost a lot of votes there. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Probably.
The democrats have not fixed any of their problems and are instead hunkering down and purging Berniecrats from the DNC. If they win any seats in 2018 it will be due to failure on the republican party ... which is possible given the divisions in the party that makes them unable to pass any significant legislation. If there are no changes then it becomes more likely. Schrubbia was, when it seemed his popularity was lower than the first time. The average voters are idiots that get their information from the media they watch and they aren't interested in fact checking. Enjoy?by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Winning the popular vote by 3 million in a presidential election would be a "problem" most political parties would dream of having. You may have echoed these same sentiments earlier in this thread, so I apologize if I am retreading well worn ground. So I'll repeat what I said about that: getting a massive vote in states you have already won the electoral college votes, but failing to win electoral votes in swing states is to my mind a failure to properly manage where the election energy, cashflow, ads, etc was spent. ie - less time in california and more in pennsylvania and michigan could have made a difference. The extra votes were wasted when a few more votes in specific areas were needed. This is a problem at the DNC/campaign level, and I don't see any discussion of changing game plans. Hubris. From what I have seen, Hillary's book is pathetic.
It would seem that the major problems they have to conquer are local, as in gerrymandering. Each state is going to have its own quirks and type of viable candidate, so I don't think there is any single magic idea that is going to work. The democrats don't seem to know how to campaign in "off year" elections, letting republicans win in state and federal races for representatives etc. Wasserman-Schultz was particularly myopic in that regard, when several issues -- like $15/hr minimum wage, universal health insurance, paid family leave, etc -- were available but ignored. Going for corporate sponsorship is a huge mistake when your base is working people trying to make ends meet. The more they campaign as "republican lite" the fewer people will be interested, especially in off-years. So yes, Trump will likely win a second term, because the democrats will be running the same losing campaign. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I can't help but lean towards the old saw that Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line. Personality has a lot to do with getting elected, and Hillary just flat out lacked personality. Well she had a negative image long before November.
That's exactly what they tried to do. Pennsylvania was thought to be as much of a lock as California. The same for Michigan. The voter models they were using to tell them where to spend their money was wrong, ... Exactly, the model was wrong because they didn't look at rural working people and rural unemployed -- so Trump picked them up. Especially when you factor in Hillary's comments to the coal miners -- that was a major mistake. The rust belt was more Trump than Hillary because she didn't have anything for them other than more years of Obama II, when they got nothing to bail them out. Catering to Wall Street over people was her biggest mistake. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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There was also voter suppression going on, for example, the new laws in Wisconson stopped many groups that tend to vote democratic from voting. And vote tampering, as Jill Stein was finding out in Michigan when they stopped her investigation. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Indeed! The line of succession goes: PenceRyan If Trump is impeached over Russia, Pence is likely to go as well - it seems he was just as involved. If 2018 upsets the House leadership we could end up with ... president Pelosi? (conservative heads explode) It would take a majority democrat house to bring terms of impeachment, but we still have senate stonewalling. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
quote: Stoking middle east Armageddon? by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
My opinion of yesterday's Alabama election results runs contrary to most editorials in the main stream media - I think it provides little hope. This is not a case of a state rejecting Trumpian values, but of a large turnout just barely managing a win in a state that mostly supports lies, deceit, misogyny, racism and ignoring constitutional law. And there would have been no win had it not been for the added dimension of a scandal involving young girls. This is the problem I have:
quote: People that did not vote for Doug Jones = 50.1% (673,255), and they will likely vote against him in the next election, unless there is more change/disagreement with Trump in the interim. People that did not vote for Roy Moore = 51.6% (693,970), so he definitely lost, but a different candidate may have won. While good for the interim, the future is not certain and this is no bellweather/test of Trumps continued appeal in the south. We can hope that many Trump voters are disillusioned, and that more will become so - especially if the tax scam passes and come April they are paying more in taxes - but I don't think this is a big message in that direction. On an up note, part of these results is due to the ACLU working tirelessly to restore voting rights to Alabama citizens that had served their time for their crimes -- reportedly thousands of voters, who were overjoyed at the opportunity to vote. We can hope for more positive results from this hard working group (and if you aren't a member already, now may be a good time to join). Just as we can hope for some positive results from lawsuits on gerrymandering and voter ID laws. Certainly the 2018 elections will be very interesting if voting rights are restored and #MeToo sexual harassment suits force many incumbents to resign or to be defeated in primaries. Time will tell. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
And once you give away the National Lands it is nearly impossible to get them back. You can't undo rape and that is what is happening today in the US. Curiously, according to some information I have seen, the statute gives presidents the power to add lands to monuments, etc, but does not mention (perhaps no one thought they would) the power to remove lands. Could be an interesting question for the lawyers. Anyone have comments? by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Here's a different breakdown of the votes:
quote: This offers some additional hope for the future, as republicans have isolated themselves into the bunker of male white voters, while the demographics evolving to make them more and more a bitter vocal minority. This holds for latino and other minority groups, as America will be more racially equitable when there is no majority in power. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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This one surprised me, too, because it seemed so minor compared to the others. Here's that part of the The biggest Pinocchios of 2017 article:
quote: I interpreted this as saying two things:
Curiously I take as hyperbole to emphasize a point. It would have been more accurate to say Tax benefits for colleges and students were killed, but they give a tax benefit to private jet owners Showing that it is all about different priorities. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Due to the new imperial edict from Trump Ego Tower comes this report
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The Wall Street Journal is locked up tight. I haven't figured out a way to get in. If they don't want me to read it, then I won't. There are enough news sources that fund their pages with ads, so I don't need to pay extra. Call me socialist, but all news should be freely accessible to everyone. Enjoy ps -- if you need a hack, sometimes you can do a ctrl-A ctrl-C before the sign in box appears, then paste into word. Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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