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Author Topic:   The Tension of Faith
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 458 of 1540 (822895)
11-03-2017 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 456 by Phat
11-03-2017 9:12 AM


Re: Try to understand the reality of "BELIEF"
But again those are examples of what you believe and as I pointed out, beliefs do not need to have any connection with reality or reason or logic or even actual meaning.
What you post is not related to actions, you have never explained what it means, It is a series of slogans that someone created and you accepted and so it is the Christianity you created, the Christ you created, the God you created.
The Gods of the Bible are the same thing. The God in Genesis 1 would never even consider walking with you or even having any contact with you at all. The God in Genesis 2&3 would be really friendly and walk with you but expect you to do something that was totally impossible for you to do and as soon as you got the tools you need to do what was expected punish you for getting the tool and kick you out of the hose because the God was afraid you might get other tools. The God in Exodus would tell you to do something and when you said "sure, I'll do it" the God magically changes your answer from Yes to No and then punishes you.
Each author was writing about beliefs. Each author created the God Character needed for that story.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by Phat, posted 11-03-2017 9:12 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by Phat, posted 11-03-2017 9:56 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 459 of 1540 (822897)
11-03-2017 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 457 by Phat
11-03-2017 9:37 AM


Re: Try to understand the reality of "BELIEF"
Phat writes:
My belief depends more on Christ existing and being who He is rather than on my personal responsibility to society.
There you go again. What does that mean?
Granted, that is your "belief" but does it really mean anything?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 462 of 1540 (822902)
11-03-2017 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 460 by Phat
11-03-2017 9:56 AM


Re: Try to understand the reality of "BELIEF"
Phat writes:
jar writes:
Each author was writing about beliefs. Each author created the God Character needed for that story.
Even though this line of thought makes me uncomfortable, I'll go with it for now.
The issue is not related to a line of thought but rather what the evidence shows. In the Bible stories the God Character constantly changes personality and traits to fit the needs of each story. In the Bible, God is not some single entity but a recitation of different beliefs and belief systems and laws and customs and politics and tribal relationships and national identities.
This is the foundation of "The Tension of Faith" regardless of the faith under discussion.
Buddhism is likely one of the least discordant examples while Christianity is likely an example of most discordant religions.
Buddhism was created based on the behavior and teaching of one person over a relatively long period. But while it is a religion it does not have a God and very much like what Jesus actually taught, is almost entirely behavior based.
Buddha created the Middle Way about 400 years or so before Jesus. It is less discordant because there was an acknowledgement from the beginning that it was based on the teachings and not the person and was not a continuation of anything that came before.
Christianity is far far messier. First, the Buddha made it clear from the beginning that he had tried the existing religions and rejected both; some of the alleged quotations from Jesus suggest he felt the same but there the tension begins; almost immediately those comments are mixed in with ones where Jesus is quoted as accepting the existing religion but just wants to reform it.
Christianity is discordant for another major factor. Jesus teachings cover a period of only three years. The Buddha though taught for a period of 45 years. Those who came after Jesus and created the nascent initial branch of Judaism tried to incorporate all of the prior Jewish writings and somehow force fit Jesus into those prior creations. The next iteration as seen in Paul's writings and the author of John create additional discordance. There were even arguments about whether or not people or children of folk already in the club could even join the club.
Buddhism started with a clean slate and from beginning to end is primarily oriented around how people should behave. Jesus teachings as recorded in the Bible stories reflect much of what the Buddha taught and are primarily about how people should behave. But in Christianity the actual teachings are lost in thousands of years of Hebrew Cultural Mythos and about a hundred years of post Jesus politicking, editorial and interoffice memos and then a couple thousand years of Christian Cultism and revolution and politics and reformation.
How could there be anything but tension in Christianity?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 476 of 1540 (822983)
11-04-2017 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 475 by Faith
11-04-2017 12:31 PM


Faith's pitiful goddlet.
Faith writes:
Faith is a gift.
How utterly pitiful, evil and despicable. What a picayune God you try to market.
Edited by jar, : . not , to end a sentence

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 487 of 1540 (823062)
11-05-2017 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 486 by Phat
11-05-2017 3:12 PM


It's up to us in the end.
Phat writes:
I expect either the government or wealthier people to take care of the homeless while you sacrifice your own potential retirement money to help them.
The only money governments have to help people is the money we give governments to help people.
How much help governments give people depends on what we tell the folk in Congress and the Executive to give to people.
Only we can make those things happen.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 494 of 1540 (823109)
11-06-2017 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 493 by kbertsche
11-06-2017 6:02 AM


Re: One More Thing For The Record
kbertsche writes:
And likewise, we Christians believe the major tenets of our faith because of evidence.
When you say "we Christians" you actually mean the subset of Christians who claim that there is evidence yet never produce any it seems.
kbertsche writes:
But evidence is a funny thing. One person can see evidence as strong and compelling, while another can see the same evidence as weak and arbitrary. Witness anthropogenic global warming, for example. Most scientists are convinced by the evidence that it is real. But a vocal segment of the populace rejects this evidence and its conclusions.
The fact that people choose to be willfully ignorant does not change either the reality or the facts.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 493 by kbertsche, posted 11-06-2017 6:02 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 499 of 1540 (823156)
11-06-2017 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 498 by Faith
11-06-2017 3:16 PM


Re: The RCC is Anti-Christ but there are true Christians in it nevertheless
You continue to claim that the RCC is anti-christ yet as is always the case never provide any evidence and reality says you are once again simply spouting nonsense.
The reality is that Roman Catholicism is a Cristian Faith.
Faith writes:
Scripture says "Come out of her, My people, lest you partake of her plagues." That is God talking to those who belong to Him but stay in the Harlot Church, which is ultimately slated for God's judgment in the form of plagues.
The Harlot Church is Calvinism, Biblical Christianity and Evangelical Christianity; the Christian Cult of Ignorance.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Faith, posted 11-06-2017 3:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by Faith, posted 11-06-2017 3:46 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 504 of 1540 (823168)
11-06-2017 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by Faith
11-06-2017 3:46 PM


Re: The RCC is Anti-Christ but there are true Christians in it nevertheless
Faith writes:
For starters, however, the very idea of a Pope or human head of the entire Church, is contrary to the whole spirit of Christianity.
So you keep asserting yet as usual, reality show you are simply wrong and posting falsehoods.
According to the Bible (have you even read the Bible Faith?) Jesus said that Peter would be the foundation of his church. Peter is a human.
Nor is the Roman Catholic Pope the head of the entire Christian Church. Once again, reality shows you are wrong and simply posting nonsense.
And "according to Luther" is simply another opinion piece. Luther's opinions are simply Luther's opinions.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 519 of 1540 (823272)
11-08-2017 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 518 by Faith
11-08-2017 1:10 PM


Faith in spite of the evidence.
Faith writes:
How on earth could anyone have faith in someone or anything else without having some evidence of the trustworthiness of that person or situation or whatever?
By education, by influence of others and by deciding to have faith.
There is no strong evidence Jesus ever existed.
There is absolutely no evidence that God exists and the Bible is strong evidence that God is simply a human creation.
Yet I have faith that there is a God (though almost certainly NOT any of the God characters in the Bible stories) and that Jesus did live and charged us with a method of living our lives.
It really is that simple.
Edited by jar, : little f

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Faith, posted 11-08-2017 1:10 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 536 of 1540 (823323)
11-09-2017 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 532 by Faith
11-08-2017 11:24 PM


According to the Bible ...
Faith writes:
In fact the whole Bible was written to convince us of the reality of God and His character. Christianity is never based on a blind leap of faith. Why would Jesus have bothered doing all the miracles He did?
Actually Faith, in almost all of the miracles reported in the Bible stories Jesus did miracles because something needed doing and in fact NOT to convince us of the reality of God and His character. A great example is the time Jesus made the beer run at the wedding bash. Not only did he only do it because Momma Said, Momma Said, he did not even take credit for it.
In the Feeding of the 5000, Jesus simply responded to a need and not to amaze the rubes. Not once in any of the various versions of that story does Jesus ever say "Here, hold my beer and watch me do this!"
It's John, not Jesus, that makes the claim that the goal of the miracles was to convince us of the reality of God and His character. Jesus simply did what was necessary at the time.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Faith, posted 11-08-2017 11:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 550 of 1540 (823411)
11-09-2017 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by Paboss
11-09-2017 11:23 PM


Re: How Faith is based on evidence and yet a gift
Paboss writes:
Faith writes:
Yes Jesus also gave Paul direct evidence, but again we have to believe Paul about that
No, we certainly don’t.
The story of Paul's conversion is particularly suspect since as recorded in the Bible the details change and become more elaborate and mystical with every retelling. It is much like the The evolution of the Great Commission over time. There the story shows evolution over time as with all folk tales and fairy tales.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 555 of 1540 (823427)
11-10-2017 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 554 by Paboss
11-10-2017 8:04 AM


The Bible's worst enemy
Paboss writes:
The Bible’s worst enemy is the Bible itself. It’s all you need to have a conscious look at to realise that its god is just a projection of the primitive, ignorant and violent men who wrote it; nothing amazing to see there.
I kinda disagree.
I believe the Bibles worst enemy are the so called Inerrant Bible Christians. By trying to pretend that the Bible is not simply a creation of humans, by trying to pretend that there is actually one Bible, by trying to pretend it is just one story with one purpose, by pretending that it is factually correct and has no contradictions, by failing to teach the actual history of Bible Creation and of how humans decided what should go in and what should be excluded and so ended up up with a whole bunch of lists of what is in that range from a Bible that has only the books that had been canonized around the time Jesus was supposed to have lived to Canons that include over 80 books; they set themselves and the Bible up for failure, drive people away from Christianity and do the work of the Devil.
The Bible's worst enemy are the Biblical Christians.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 554 by Paboss, posted 11-10-2017 8:04 AM Paboss has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 565 of 1540 (823473)
11-10-2017 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 562 by Tangle
11-10-2017 1:18 PM


the Bible stories attributed to "John" are worse than just hearsay.
Tangle writes:
Just to add to the 'what is evidence?' bit, John's writings would not be allowed into a court of law as evidence because it is hearsay.
There is an even bigger problem getting it admitted as evidence than the fact that it is hearsay; there is no evidence that it was even written by a John or any John. The author is totally unknown so it is not just hearsay but hearsay from an anonymous source.
It is simply hearsay from a John or Evan or Giovanni or Jean or Juan Doe.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by Tangle, posted 11-10-2017 1:18 PM Tangle has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 603 of 1540 (823571)
11-12-2017 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 602 by Percy
11-12-2017 7:42 PM


Re: How Faith is based on evidence and yet a gift
Percy writes:
If you don't like the term "religious works" could I suggest "sacred writings."
Exactly, just like the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, Vedas and Book of Mormon.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by Percy, posted 11-12-2017 7:42 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 614 of 1540 (823595)
11-13-2017 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 610 by Faith
11-13-2017 11:49 AM


Re: How Faith is based on evidence and yet a gift
Faith writes:
Sorry, it's you against millions of Christians for two thousand years. You lose.
Sorry but it's millions of Christians for two thousand years against reality and reality always wins.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 610 by Faith, posted 11-13-2017 11:49 AM Faith has not replied

  
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