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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5152 of 5179 (823704)
11-15-2017 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 5151 by ringo
11-15-2017 2:57 PM


Re: Texas This Time
Why does it mention militia at all if it doesn't mean "the people" who are members of the militia?
I'm not exactly sure, but the phrasing was recycled and then chopped up and re-written and it's a bit of a mess. The prefatory clause is unnecessary and seems to be included as, like, an FYI or something. I dunno, it's weird.
But it doesn't matter, when the Constitution refers to "the people" it refers to all individuals and not some subset of them.
For reference, here's what the Virginia Declaration of Rights had to say:
quote:
That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5151 by ringo, posted 11-15-2017 2:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5153 by ringo, posted 11-15-2017 3:47 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5154 of 5179 (823706)
11-15-2017 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 5153 by ringo
11-15-2017 3:47 PM


Re: Texas This Time
It doesn't matter, when the Constitution refers to "the people" it refers to all individuals and not some subset of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5153 by ringo, posted 11-15-2017 3:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5155 by ringo, posted 11-15-2017 3:57 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5156 of 5179 (823708)
11-15-2017 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 5155 by ringo
11-15-2017 3:57 PM


Re: Texas This Time
That seems like a phony self-serving distinction.
I didn't make it up:
quote:
the Court said that the people refers to those persons who are part of a national community,
...
the Court commented on the meaning of the people in other parts of the Constitution, noting that the phrase appears seven times.
And in all six other provisions of the Constitution that mention ‘the people,’ the term unambiguously refers to all members of the political community, not an unspecified subset.
source
The wording strongly suggests that it was referring to a subset.
Turns out you don't know what you're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5155 by ringo, posted 11-15-2017 3:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5162 by ringo, posted 11-16-2017 10:42 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5161 of 5179 (823742)
11-16-2017 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 5158 by NoNukes
11-15-2017 8:00 PM


Re: Endless Mass Shootings
Sure, when you want to argue about guns, then there are natural gun rights. At other times, apparently, there were not.
You're full of shit.
But I guess since you have to resort to arguing the person instead of the position then that just goes to show that I'm right on this one. I suppose I could thank you for that but I'm not gonna because you're being an asshole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5158 by NoNukes, posted 11-15-2017 8:00 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5164 by AdminPhat, posted 11-16-2017 10:54 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 5168 by NoNukes, posted 11-16-2017 12:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5165 of 5179 (823748)
11-16-2017 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 5164 by AdminPhat
11-16-2017 10:54 AM


Re: Endless Mass Shootings
Falling asleep at the wheel?
I'm tired of the personal attacks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5164 by AdminPhat, posted 11-16-2017 10:54 AM AdminPhat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5166 by AdminPhat, posted 11-16-2017 11:08 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5167 of 5179 (823752)
11-16-2017 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 5157 by Modulous
11-15-2017 4:14 PM


Re: sense, possibly even common
Around 1- in-5 to 1-in-3 sales are done in such a way that avoids background checks as a requirement.
So 20-30% hugeness. That's consistent with my collection.
I wonder how that amount compares to the amount of gun transfers that are happening in the dark.
I'm not against background checks, but personally I'd rather hassle the people who are committing crimes than those who aren't.
I guess "closing the loophole" would mean that every time I sell a gun I would have to go through an FFL? Essentially banning all private transfers, period?
Firearm Owners Protection Act is a Federal law, right? The one that bans the sale of automatic weapons, with exceptions surrounding grandfathered weapons?
Yeah, that's federal. You can still be permitted to buy a machine gun if you pay a tax to the ATF and it was manufactured before 1986, iirc.
I've shot a couple machine guns, one was a MAC-11 - what a hot mess.
What are the top five common sense gun control measures that will have the biggest impact on the goals that are trying to be achieved?
Good question. Here's my attempt to an answer:
1) Ban handguns
2) Band semi-automatic weapons
3) Ban weapons capable of holding more than four rounds
Ooh, straight to banning guns. Nice, thanks for being honest.
4) Require a licence to hold a firearm.
We have that in Illinois and it's not working here. Maybe at a federal level it would have a bigger impact, but I dunno.
Out of curiosity: How would you feel about a free speech license? Or a license for due process?
5) Require insurance for owning a weapon to cover expenses to property and payment of injury claims that may occur as a result of accidents, negligence or deliberate misuse of a weapon.
What's the goal for that one?
Could that goal be met with the penalties from criminal charges?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5157 by Modulous, posted 11-15-2017 4:14 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5173 of 5179 (823763)
11-16-2017 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 5168 by NoNukes
11-16-2017 12:20 PM


Re: Endless Mass Shootings
I am also telling the truth.
No, you're not. And you're breaking the rules.
I understand that you don't like folks pointing to your past posts.
You haven't pointed to anything. You're just gossiping about irrelevant shit.
I am citing your positions and the result is picture of you that you do not like.
You haven't cited shit. You're just talking about something I may or may not have said in the past. It's off topic and beside the point - i.e. completely useless. You're also wrong about the position I took.
And I can't care less about the picture, liar. But why are you so interested in what I do or do not like? Why do you care about me personally? You don't know me nor what I think. That you're lying about me personally is pretty insulting though - although, it's sad and pathetic that you care about this at all.
Also, you're retarded to think that I have to have the exact same position on every single thread. Hell, I like debates where I'm assigned a position.
People can take a position in a debate that they are not emotionally involved in - well, not you, but people better than you can.
Also, and you might want to sit down for this one: People's opinions can change.
There are things I think these days that are different from things I've thought in the past. Whoopty-fucking-do!
I am not going to apologize for that.
I'm not looking for an apology. I'm saying fuck you asshole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5168 by NoNukes, posted 11-16-2017 12:20 PM NoNukes has not replied

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