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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
Phat
Member
Posts: 10517
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1 of 108 (823768)
11-16-2017 1:12 PM


This thread is a continuation of our ongoing discussions regarding gun violence, gun control pro and con, and gun use and abuse incidents that seem all too common in our society today.

The prior two threads were:
Gun Control

Gun Control Again

Please start fresh and do not carry any old feuds or arguments over from prior gun control topics. ~Admin Phat
***************************************************************
Speaking personally, I observe that we live in a violent society, one that is often on edge. Witness road rage incidents, mentally disturbed mass shooters, and the growing number of victims. Although a global problem, the NRA and the gun lobby make the United States a unique case. Were I a hunter, perhaps I would feel differently about owning guns. I am not a pacifist, but I DO think that gun violence is getting out of hand in America.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : added


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10517
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 2 of 108 (823772)
11-16-2017 1:40 PM


Senators Introduce Bipartisan Deal For Gun Purchases
This in todays news from NPR: Senators Introduce Bipartisan Deal To Tighten Reporting For Gun Purchases

The bill is supported by a total of four Democrats and four Republicans.

quote:
The bill is meant to "ensure federal and state authorities comply with existing law and accurately report relevant criminal history records" to databases used in gun-purchase background checks. It "penalizes federal agencies who fail to properly report relevant records and incentivizes states to improve their overall reporting" while providing more funding to track domestic violence.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10517
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3 of 108 (823806)
11-17-2017 10:05 AM


Supply & Demand
I'm all for common sense gun control legislation. Our longtime and now inactive member Crashfrog once commented:
Frog writes:

In the US, though, even if you banned guns tomorrow there'd still be 80 guns per every 100 people, or more than 2.5 million firearms. If you want to reduce the number of guns, you're talking about a program to confiscate guns, primarily from people who have not ever used them to any harmful purpose. Even in a country with no Second Amendment, we'd still have the Fourth Amendment, so how could such a program be legal?

I'm wondering what would happen with these existing guns....would the law of supply and demand make them more expensive?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by NoNukes, posted 11-17-2017 10:45 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 11-17-2017 10:57 AM Phat has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10361
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 4 of 108 (823807)
11-17-2017 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
11-17-2017 10:05 AM


Re: Supply & Demand
I'm wondering what would happen with these existing guns....would the law of supply and demand make them more expensive?

Yes, it would. In fact, we have examples of that now. The banning of sales of assault rifles has made the ones currently in circulation very expensive.

Banning guns, if that were even possible, would over time reduce the number of guns around. Arguments that we cannot get rid of all of them are not really reasons to get rid of none of them.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 11-17-2017 10:05 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14253
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 5 of 108 (823809)
11-17-2017 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
11-17-2017 10:05 AM


Re: Supply & Demand
Phat writes:

I'm all for common sense gun control legislation.


You can't have common sense gun control legislation in a nation that has no common sense about guns.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 11-17-2017 10:05 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 11-17-2017 11:30 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10517
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 6 of 108 (823811)
11-17-2017 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
11-17-2017 10:57 AM


If Shootings Become More Common What Then?
As an example, a murder in Chicago may never get reported by the news media. A similar murder in Lawrence, Kansas likely would make the main pages and local TV.

My question is whether shootings become so common that the media largely ignores them. It already happens on a global basis. a hundred people can die in another country and most of us won't hear about it.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 11-17-2017 10:57 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by ringo, posted 11-17-2017 11:52 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14253
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 7 of 108 (823814)
11-17-2017 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
11-17-2017 11:30 AM


Re: If Shootings Become More Common What Then?
Phat writes:

My question is whether shootings become so common that the media largely ignores them.


I think they should be ignored more than they are. As I've said before, "dog bites man" isn't news. You might as well report, "Sun rises in east," every day.

Phat writes:

a hundred people can die in another country and most of us won't hear about it.


If people die in an earthquake, I'm not sure that's newsworthy either. What makes earthquakes, etc. worth reporting is that we may be able to do something to help the survivors.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 11-17-2017 11:30 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16724
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 8 of 108 (828244)
02-14-2018 8:36 PM


17 Dead at Florida High School
'There are really no words': 17 dead in Florida high school shooting; former student in custody

There really are no words.

Weapon was an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. We have to make guns like this and the Bushmaster and so forth unavailable to the public.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by NoNukes, posted 02-14-2018 10:30 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 11 by frako, posted 02-15-2018 5:20 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 02-15-2018 9:01 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10361
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 9 of 108 (828245)
02-14-2018 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Percy
02-14-2018 8:36 PM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
'There are really no words': 17 dead in Florida high school shooting; former student in custody

How long before we hear that the only way to stop a bad student with a gun is for the good students to start carrying.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 02-14-2018 8:36 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by frako, posted 02-15-2018 5:16 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2749
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 10 of 108 (828256)
02-15-2018 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by NoNukes
02-14-2018 10:30 PM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
Well its only logical, the only way to solve the US gun problem is for everyone to have guns and lots of them, that way everyone is perfectly safe.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by NoNukes, posted 02-14-2018 10:30 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 02-15-2018 10:25 AM frako has responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2749
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 11 of 108 (828257)
02-15-2018 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Percy
02-14-2018 8:36 PM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
'There are really no words': 17 dead in Florida high school shooting; former student in custody
There really are no words.

Weapon was an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. We have to make guns like this and the Bushmaster and so forth unavailable to the public.

Thats just because the liberals named it assault rifle-15, while in truth it should b e called DR-15 or defensive rifle 15.

Americans should all get these magic guns


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 02-14-2018 8:36 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10517
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 12 of 108 (828260)
02-15-2018 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Percy
02-14-2018 8:36 PM


Attention Tangle
In a way, it is all a form of domestic terrorism---perpetrated by mental illness---and made tragically worse through the availability of guns and automatic weapons.

Tangle has brought up the case before that foreign ideological terrorism is caused largely by religion, but if one compares the numbers of these foreign terror attacks with the numbers(of casualties) of our US domestic school shootings, we have more of a problem right here at home. We have met the enemy and it is us.

These incidents are motivated by a mental aberration. Time will tell the dark psychology behind the shooter in Florida, but this one was captured alive to study.

The students even predicted that *if* a shooting happened at their school, Mr. Cruz(the suspect) would be the one to do it.
Likely in the Islamic cultures, the ones crazy enough to unleash terror attacks have a level of mental instability and are known within the communities as well. The culture of Islam does not talk about such people because the authorities vilify all of Islam rather than the few individuals crazy enough to actually carry out a terror attack.

As further proof of my theory linking domestic terror with foreign terror, many of the US suspects aspire to join the military, as this one did. Ideology is not limited to religion, and religion is not the villain. Mental illness and an inability to fit into society are the common denominators, and the availability of guns provides the means and the opportunity.

Edited by Phat, : sub title


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 02-14-2018 8:36 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26973
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 108 (828266)
02-15-2018 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by frako
02-15-2018 5:16 AM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
Well its only logical, the only way to solve the US gun problem is for everyone to have guns and lots of them, that way everyone is perfectly safe.

At least a couple of administrators or a security guard perhaps.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by frako, posted 02-15-2018 5:16 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 02-15-2018 1:10 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 15 by frako, posted 02-15-2018 1:36 PM Faith has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10517
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 14 of 108 (828272)
02-15-2018 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
02-15-2018 10:25 AM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
What if the administrator does not want to have "ability to engage in shootout to protect lives" in their job description? Seems well above my pay grade, anyway.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 02-15-2018 10:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 02-16-2018 11:32 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2749
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 15 of 108 (828275)
02-15-2018 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
02-15-2018 10:25 AM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
At least a couple of administrators or a security guard perhaps.

Untill the kids bring the administrator, or the guard to tears with their antics and he/she snaps and unloads on the little blighters. And if something does happen do you really think minimum wage buys a hero guard or someone who will run and take cover. Make schools gun free zones its the better option.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 02-15-2018 10:25 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 02-15-2018 1:39 PM frako has responded
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 02-15-2018 4:00 PM frako has responded

    
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