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Author | Topic: Michael Servetus was burnt at the stake in Calvin's Geneva in 1553 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
I know that certain Trinitarian individuals put study into the issue (I don't mean simply reading the Gospel of John), but by then, there is often a total brainwashing factor still at play.
Jesus is already assumed to be God when most Christians start to read the Bible. People who never attend church (and who have few religious conversations) are more likely to have heard about the "Son of God" and thus won't be as brainwashed (they might even find it slightly odd AT FIRST to hear that "Jesus is God"). But it won't take long for them to be brainwashed, once a religious conversation starts (where another brainwashed person corrects them quickly). The fact of the matter is that the Bible isn't where people get their ideas from. And people read into the Bible.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I will not quote you, but will give a general response. On the other hand, I quote you extensively when making my points about what you've put up here.
You failed to understand my IRREFUTABLE point. LNA I read the nonsense you post. Apparently, you don't have an answer for any of my questions, so you fall back to the tactic of typing denials about what you have posted followed by declaring that you have won something. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
He told me to go look in archives.
I typed "Elkesaites reincarnation" into google and found my old reincarnation thread on the first page of hits. (it is in top five if spelled elcesaites and top 8 if elkesaites)
quote: Look at the results if you type in "elkesai reincarnation" EVC is number 1!
quote: the goodle page says there are over 7000 pages Now for NoNukes in the thread message 130
quote: message 136
quote: What does this prove? NoNukes says he never gave possible un-trinitarian views of Paul much thought. It backs up my previous point or not?
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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NoNukes says he never gave possible un-trinitarian views of Paul much thought. Paul was not a Trinitarian. Believing in the deity of Christ is an essential part of Trinitarianism, but it is not the entire doctrine. In fact, even Arianism incorporates the belief that Jesus was the son of God. In my opinion, Paul had very little to say about the issue of Trinitarianism, but you are welcome to demonstrate otherwise. My personal belief, one I have expressed here before is that the entire question about the Trinity is a non-issue because it is neither Biblical nor essential for salvation through Jesus Christ. On the other hand, you seem to be somewhat confused. Perhaps I should have stayed out of this and let in become yet another LNA ranting space without opposition. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Suggestion: knock off the massive multiple page posts. Nobody reads them anyway.
Stick to a very few salient points and leave the shotgun approach to duck hunters.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: Lay your cards on the table since you constantly like to mouth off. I have done what you asked. I proved that you never gave it much thought. You admitted you were brainwashed (but won't admit it now, nor will you admit that I just proved it).
quote: I know that you came to see a distinction between being "divine" and the same thing as God, but that wasn't what you probably meant when you posted above.
quote: You hate learning. You were angry to find out that the Hillary campaign actually was part of a DNC scheme to manipulate the primary schedule (debates, state primary days, etc.) It isn't my fault you prefer ignorance.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: I am starting to think that many DO READ MY POSTS. (Wasn't so sure before) I put "Manichean reincarnation" into google (55,000 page hits) and my Jesus reincarnation thread was at page 7. "Manicheans reincarnation" was on page 7 ( 39,000 page hits total) "Jesus teach reincarnation" had 416,000 page hits and my EVC thread was on page 3 "Jesus taught reincarnation Elijah" had 113,000 page hits and my thread was on page 5 "Elkesaite reincarnation" was on first page (there were over 7000 hits for "Elkesai reincarnation" and my thread was at the top of page 1) I'm not so sure my threads are completely crappy as some of you like to claim. And why the heck aren't you interested in the super-early Jewish Christian Elkesaites? I think they help to explain a heck of a lot (including 1 Timothy 4:3-7) (including the obsession of Acts of the Apostles when it comes to the Holy Spirit plus the "power of God called Great" in Acts 8) (including the LOGOS part of the Gospel of John) (not to mention what they probably tell us about ALL Jewish Christians including James the Just) Open your eyes man!
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 376 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
I'm camped out in the ditch watching the traffic go by. Ah yes, nothing quite like ditch camping to hone one's perspective on the nature of God.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Lamark writes: I am starting to think that many DO READ MY POSTS. (Wasn't so sure before). I put "Manichean reincarnation" into google (55,000 page hits) and my Jesus reincarnation thread was at page 7. Google's spiders are certainly reading your posts. They read everything and anything on the internet. Whether humans are reading is moot. But I can tell you that very, very few people would get to page 7 of a specific google search like that. A better measure of whether your posts here are being read would be whether people reply to them. Mostly it seems to me that they don't.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I proved that you never gave it much thought. You admitted you were brainwashed (but won't admit it now, nor will you admit that I just proved it). This reasoning is just plain idiotic. I said that I had not thought deeply about Paul's position, not my own position.
You were angry to find out that the Hillary campaign actually was part of a DNC scheme to manipulate the primary schedule (debates, state primary days, etc.) Your suppositions do not make me angry. They let me know how much of a buffoon you are. I love pointing that stuff out. I also enjoy pointing out where you are lying. I never got around to attacking most of the details of your conspiracy theories. I did attack a couple of the wilder accusations as being without basis. You never responded to my points, you just went off on various tangents. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: The network is running way to slow (took me forever to get this far to respond), but go look at my OP (I will quote the OP later- promise!), and you will see that I was talking about what the Biblical authors (mostly) said. Nice attempt to split hairs though. Pretty slick. (actually it was a transparent, not to mention pathetic lie on your part)
quote: Nice attempt to lie about what has happened. It is the defining feature of your character. Go back and read this thread ( your blanket rewrites of history in your above claim could cover lots of threads - I SUPPOSE -, but you are enough of a obvious liar that I don't much care FOR NOW). EvC Forum: Newsweek: Hillary Clinton Robbed Bernie Sanders Of The Democratic Nomination, Accordi Tell me where I did not respond. (in that thread ) Every lie you told WILL be held to account from now on. (I didn't accuse you of not responding, in that thread, though I should have as it is pretty clear who is the one who was proven wrong on pretty much every point)
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Forget my OP, as it is obviously about people being brainwashed
Here is the entire text of my first response to NoNukes
quote: Gee, I really wasn't mainly talking about the Biblical authors views? After the liar accused me (and told me to search the archives to prove my point), here was what I said after I quoted his past words.
quote: I really didn't talk about the uncritical assumption on your part about the Biblical author's views? (Paul, in your case) Give me a break
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Both of you better knock it off or I will shut this thread and suspend you.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: That was Manicheans and reincarnation keywords. But. Put "Did Jesus teach reincarnation" into google and my thread is at number 28 out of 400,000 Number 8 of page 3
quote: I'm not so sure your comment applies here too. I noticed a good while back that Elkesaites reincarnation or Elkesai reincarnation was on page 1. I only put it in to find NoNukes past posts, since he told me to. I assumed that it would be way down by now. I know that in ten past, keywords like "Jesus teach reincarnation" and "Jesus taught reincarnation Elijah" would have never gotten my thread anywhere visible. I am amazed it is so high.
quote: I suspect that people interested in Early Christian origins would be more interested than you (and the posters here) in reading my posts (for the book quotes?), but I admit that I am not 100% sure. I never post on message boards (except here), but I sure read a lot of discussions. Most people read but don't type. (I imagine they don't see me as an expert, so don't post to ask me questions, as they don't think my answer is going to be anything worth registering on EVC for.) I don't know.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
When did you start to question the idea that all (or most) of the Biblical author's had views which were inline with "Trinitarian" type Christology.
Really, when did it un-Trinitarian interpretations even dawn on you as a possible interpretation. The main issue I was thinking of was assuming as fact the idea that Jesus was God, instead of simply the "Son of God". (There is also the issue of what exactly the author's thought of whenever they mentioned the Holy Spirit) The topic isn't exactly a debate about the views of Paul or any other author, the debate is about when you found it to even be an issue that Biblical authors might not have all had views that fell in line with what the various churches teach today. The main reason I ask is because I really have talked to (or overheard) a lot of people (they are typically ethnic Christians who don't attend church) who seem shocked that Jesus is described in The Bible as God (it seems to be a modern thing to think that the endless evangelical chant "Son of God" means just that - son!). Non Christians usually are aware that Jesus is thought to be God. I noticed this long ago. But this is a modern thing and mostly a view among the younger generations. (say those born after 1975?) and it is far from widespread. Those who come from religious Christian families will typically always interpret the "Son of God" to mean God (I don't think it meant that originally, but I honestly don't know, and the possibility is REAL that Avatar-like claims might have been spoken by Jesus during his lifetime THOUGH I, AGAIN, DOUBT IT) Popular culture always beamed the "Jesus is God" idea into peoples heads so strongly, that it wasn't even considered that he was possibly described as anything but God. Things are changing, for sure, and what was once fully ingrained into every single head (in past generations), is becoming a thing of the past. Whether this means people are returning to 1st century Christian views or not isn't really my concern (in this thread). (A case can be made that these un-Trinitarian views are giving an opportunity to put the Christ back into Christianity, since that was probably where the founders of the religion were BUT THAT IT NOT THE TOPIC EITHER) There is a transition happening, but most older folk would have been brainwashed into reading "Jesus is God" into every Biblical author (especially the New Testament, but it is amazing how many are brainwashed enough to think that the Old Testament talks about Jesus too - and as God to boot!). Anyway. When did you first become aware of the possibility that every Biblical author did not think of Jesus to be God? And how?
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