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Author Topic:   Why did God forgive our sins?
jar
Member
Posts: 29763
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 451 of 478 (822092)
10-19-2017 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Phat
10-19-2017 2:25 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
RC Sproul has a habit of saying really stupid stuff at times.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Phat, posted 10-19-2017 2:25 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
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Posts: 13968
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 452 of 478 (822108)
10-19-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Phat
10-19-2017 2:25 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Phat writes:

... consider that chance in and of itself has no power in and of itself to cause any sort of an outcome.


Nobody said it did.

Phat writes:

Thus to say that something happens by chance is really saying nothing.


Nonsense. It's important to distinguish between situations where we can predict exact outcomes and situations where we can't. If you fire a shotgun out the window, you can predict that there will be a bad outcome. If you bet on seven, you can't. Betting depends on luck. Firearms often do not.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Pressie
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Posts: 1856
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 453 of 478 (822147)
10-20-2017 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by ringo
10-19-2017 11:40 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Yip. A few years ago someone fired one shot at a crowd from the top of a high-rise building close to Ellis Park. There were 20 000 people sitting on the stand he could see from that window. The shot hit one person.
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1856
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 454 of 478 (822148)
10-20-2017 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by ringo
10-19-2017 11:40 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Double post.

Edited by Pressie, : Double post


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Phat
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Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 455 of 478 (824301)
11-26-2017 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 451 by jar
10-19-2017 6:30 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
jar writes:

RC Sproul has a habit of saying really stupid stuff at times.

What have you observed? (Apart from the quote in my signature) Give me a couple of examples.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by jar, posted 10-19-2017 6:30 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 456 by jar, posted 11-26-2017 7:33 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29763
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 456 of 478 (824303)
11-26-2017 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 455 by Phat
11-26-2017 7:22 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Sorry but I can't think of any worse examples off the top of my head and RC Sproul is certainly not high on my reading list and I definitely don't listen to videos or recordings.

AbE:

Let me expand just a little.

Sproul is a Calvinist and honestly, I find that since Calvinism is based on absolute absurdities that run totally counter to anything Jesus supposedly taught it is simply not worth much if any effort and deserves nothing but ridicule.

Calvinism is IMHO one of the most perverse doctrines ever created by mankind.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by Phat, posted 11-26-2017 7:22 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 457 by Phat, posted 11-26-2017 11:38 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 457 of 478 (824308)
11-26-2017 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 456 by jar
11-26-2017 7:33 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
How many of the preachers are Calvinists? Am I a Calvinist? What does one have to believe to be a Calvinist?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by jar, posted 11-26-2017 7:33 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 458 by jar, posted 11-26-2017 11:45 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29763
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 458 of 478 (824309)
11-26-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 457 by Phat
11-26-2017 11:38 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
Phat writes:

How many of the preachers are Calvinists?

Sproul is a Calvinist.

Phat writes:

Am I a Calvinist? What does one have to believe to be a Calvinist?

You often post as a Calvinist but I have no idea if you are a Calvinist. Are you a member of one of the Calvinist chapters of Club Christian?

Do you know what TULIP is and subscribe to TULIP?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by Phat, posted 11-26-2017 11:38 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 459 by Phat, posted 11-26-2017 12:21 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
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Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 459 of 478 (824310)
11-26-2017 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by jar
11-26-2017 11:45 AM


Tiptoe through the TULIPS
I found this interesting article by Sproul:

The Fine Points of Calvinism So you have me off thinking again. Now lemme get this straight: TULIP=
Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and Perseverance of the saints, right? Let me regroup my thoughts and see if I believe any of TULIP.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by jar, posted 11-26-2017 11:45 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by Phat, posted 11-27-2017 8:30 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 460 of 478 (824344)
11-27-2017 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 459 by Phat
11-26-2017 12:21 PM


Re: Tiptoe through the TULIPS
Hopefully I will continue this line of thought at my New Topic Once it gets promoted. To be honest, I never really realized that Calvinism was so prevalent in American Christianity.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by Phat, posted 11-26-2017 12:21 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 462 by jar, posted 11-27-2017 9:05 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 461 of 478 (824346)
11-27-2017 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 458 by jar
11-26-2017 11:45 AM


Re: Speaking in Jaberwocky
im learning new stuff....putting pieces of the puzzle together... seems as if RC Sproul was also a Presbyterian at one time. One of those who came from England!

He does have more education than most of them, however.

Wiki writes:

Sproul has been an ardent advocate of Calvinism in his many print, audio, and video publications, and he is also known for his advocacy of the Thomistic (classical) approaches to Christian apologetics, less common among Reformed apologists, and his rejection of presuppositionalism in favor of Thomistic apologetics, often called "Classical Apologetics". A dominant theme in many of Sproul's Renewing Your Mind lessons is the holiness and sovereignty of God.

Sproul, a critic of the Roman Catholic Church and Catholic theology, denounced the 1994 ecumenical document Evangelicals and Catholics Together.[11]

Edited by Phat, : added


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by jar, posted 11-26-2017 11:45 AM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29763
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 462 of 478 (824348)
11-27-2017 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 460 by Phat
11-27-2017 8:30 AM


Re: Tiptoe through the TULIPS
Phat writes:

To be honest, I never really realized that Calvinism was so prevalent in American Christianity.

You are not alone. Most Christians are unaware of the actual history of Christianity or any other religion. Once you finish studying Calvin and Calvinism look at John Knox. He made Malcolm X seem a pacifist.

These are things I believe should be part of every young Christians Sacred Studies to help them make informed decisions related to beliefs and not just be subjected to the bumper sticker theology that is the norm.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by Phat, posted 11-27-2017 8:30 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 463 of 478 (824349)
11-27-2017 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 462 by jar
11-27-2017 9:05 AM


Re: Tiptoe through the TULIPS
Yes, I agree. And earlier you asked me
Are you a member of one of the Calvinist chapters of Club Christian?
and my question is how many of the denominations would fall under this category?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by jar, posted 11-27-2017 9:05 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 464 by jar, posted 11-27-2017 9:54 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29763
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 464 of 478 (824353)
11-27-2017 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 463 by Phat
11-27-2017 9:08 AM


Re: Tiptoe through the TULIPS
Phat writes:

and my question is how many of the denominations would fall under this category?

I doubt there is an set number since today in the US there seems to be more Non-demominational churches then there are denomination themselves.

A partial list would include most denominations that include "Reformed" in their name, Presbyterians, some Methodists, United Church of Christ, some Baptist sects.

But remember, in many cases even Calvinists disagree about what a True Calvinist much believe.

TULIP or some version of TULIP is most often a key point of Dogma that distinguishes Calvinism.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by Phat, posted 11-27-2017 9:08 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 143
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 465 of 478 (825137)
12-08-2017 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by ICANT
06-12-2008 6:30 PM


Re: Responsibility
I am a builder. I have built churches, houses, roads and bridges.
Now if I took my material and built a house and I decided to tear it down whose permission would I need. (Permits are not required for demolition where I live).

Why does God need our approval or permission to do anything He desires with what was originally His.

When we are doing experiments with a bunch of rats, chimps or whatever we don't ask their permission.

I see you wrote this almost a decade ago ICANT, but I wanted to double check your thought process here if you don't mind.
The ethics of animal cruelty aside, are you really comparing demolition of a house "because you can" as the builder, to the destruction of a sentient being "because you can" as the parent?

Please tell me I misunderstood you. I mean, as the father of a seven year old daughter I in no way consider her to be my personal property to do with as I will. I am certainly not her owner; I consider myself to be her caretaker for a short time, looking out for her best interests, until she is ready to be her own independent member of society. Even then, I want to be available to help or advise her in anyway she might need. Normal human morality recoils at the concept of Biblical "Vessels of Wrath" mindset, where because HE MADE US, God can do, literally in this mindset, whatever "the Hell" He wants to with us.

You are trying to convince modern moral beings to adopt an archaic and brutal way of thinking that hasn't existed in the Western mind for a long, long time. You won't be successful in this endeavor in the real world. You have to go back to preaching to the choir, who already have their moral compasses a bit skewed by this wrongheadedness.

If I have not understood you correctly I apologize and would love to hear you correct me.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

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