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Author Topic:   Modern Democratic Socialized Capitalism is not Evil
Posts: 19719
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8

Message 1 of 2 (824695)
12-02-2017 2:06 PM

First we start with these basic definitions:

Communism ... is the philosophical, social, political and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

Underlined Italics for emphasis.

The only working version of communism I am aware of were the Israeli Kubbutzes (traditionally collective communities in Israel that were based on agriculture).

So far I know of no nation where the means of production were actually owned in common. What we have in so-called communist countries are oligarchies:

Oligarchy ... is a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people. These people might be distinguished by nobility, wealth, family ties, education or corporate, religious or military control. Such states are often controlled by families who typically pass their influence from one generation to the next, but inheritance is not a necessary condition for the application of this term.

Throughout history, oligarchies have often been tyrannical, relying on public obedience or oppression to exist. Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich,[4] for which another term commonly used today is plutocracy.

Underlined Italics for emphasis.

Oligarchies are not limited to "communist" countries, but to kingdoms and other totalitarian tyrannical governments. (Iran, Libya, Syria, N Korea, etc).

What is evil is the totalitarian tyrannical governments and the oppression of the people.

Thus the common (ignorant) fear of communism is more appropriately directed at oligarchies. Especially here in the US where large corporations are taking over government.

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production,[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11] Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective or cooperative ownership, or to citizen ownership of equity.[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] though social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14][15]

Underlined Italics for emphasis.

While no nation I know of is purely socialist in economic structure, there are a number of nations that have various levels of public ownership of things plus various levels of collective or cooperative ownership and some citizen owned equity.

This applies to the US, Britain, France, Norway, Sweden, etc

Public ownership generally applies to things for the general public welfare (healthcare, utilities, roads, police protection, fire protection, national protection, etc.).

Collective or cooperative or citizen ownership applies to those corporations or institutions (worker owned cooperatives, for example) that operate democratically for public good or for profit, or both (charities?).

In practice all countries with socialist institutions operate economically with capitalistic systems.

What distinguishes socialism from communism then is:

  1. compatible with democratic government
  2. democratic control of production
  3. several varieties of ownership, public, collective and private
  4. compatible with capitalistic systems

Thus you can have democratic, socialized capitalistic countries (US, Britain, France, Norway, Sweden, etc)

Capitalism is an economic system and an ideology based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.[1][2][3] Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and competitive markets.[4][5] In a capitalist market economy, decision-making and investment are determined by the owners of the means of production in financial and capital markets, whereas prices and the distribution of goods are mainly determined by competition in the market.[6][7]

In pure capitalistic systems, corporations are oligarchies (power rests with a small number of people) and only the owners get rich (ie becomes plutocracy). The more the economic system reflects pure capitalism the larger the income gap gets between the owners and the workers, because the owners make the decisions on the operation of the companies.

The US is NOT a socialist country, in spite of having many socialist institutions, because not all means of production are democratically controlled collective corporations. It IS a socialized, democratic, capitalist country with many oligarchic corporations. There are many countries that are more socialized than the US, but few that are as dominated by oligarchic corporations.

Final definition:


noun, Psychiatry.
1. a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

This applies to corporations (which the republicans claim are people), especially large corporations, and is the ultimate result of pure capitalism as the motive is operation for profit not for people.

The evil of oligarchies and the totalitarian tyrannical control by sociopath management is an inevitable end result of pure capitalism.

Just as socialized people are better members of society than sociopaths, socialized capitalism - with democratically controlled management - is better than sociopath oligarchies.

It may be possible to reign in sociopath oligarchies with taxation systems that then direct the tax money to the benefit of the people and alleviate the worst effects of sociopathic oligarchy management, but experience shows it is temporary at best.

It is time for corporations to become democratically operated institutions.


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Posts: 1897
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004
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Message 2 of 2 (824700)
12-02-2017 2:20 PM

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