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Author | Topic: Executive Pay - Good Capitalism Bad Capitalism? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Sure. You charge higher prices for better service. You pay your workers better to provide better service. It's a vicious circle.
But if your costs are higher than your competitors and he's doing the same you either take less profit or have higher prices.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
ringo writes: You charge higher prices for better service. You pay your workers better to provide better service. It's a vicious circle. You don't need to pay your workers more to provide better service. Paying the same person more doesn't change their abilities. It may improve staff turnover and sometimes motivation but it's more likely to make no difference on its own. Customer service is ethos, procedures, supervision and training mainly. But that apart, it's a myth that people buy products on customer service, it's mostly a customer retention strategy for services. People will tell you all sorts of things about being prepared to spend a bit more for great service but the majority will then go out and buy the cheapest.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
If that was true, there wouldn't be anybody providing better customer service.
People will tell you all sorts of things about being prepared to spend a bit more for great service but the majority will then go out and buy the cheapest.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
ringo writes: If that was true, there wouldn't be anybody providing better customer service. It is true - anonymous online shopping has decimated the personal service of the high street for example, and buyers online will use comparison web sites to find the cheapest. But it doesn't mean that no-one would specialise in a niche where customer service matters.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Do you think you are getting a fair share of the profit the company makes? I don't know and I don't care. The arrangement we've made is agreeable to me. My pay wasn't derived from their profits. If I want a share in the profits then I can buy stock.
If you don't think you are getting a fair share of the profit the company makes then the company is exploiting you (with your willing participation in being exploited). Yes, and I have sold that it in exchange for money. And that's fair. And I have the option of using that money to get a share of the profits. I'm happy. Where's the problem?
If you think you are getting a fair share of the profit the company makes then the company is making the profit WITH the workers. I understand that, it's just not how we're doing business \_(ツ)_/
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
There's nothing stopping anyone creating co-ops, so why don't they? Because the wealthy hold most of the investment money. They are not going to enter into a business deal where they have to provide startup costs and then get a shared return that is less than what they initially spent.Unless they were just being nice. I think another part of it is that it's harder to get a bunch of people to agree and take responsibility for everything than it is to just have one motherfucker in charge of the whole thing.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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Tangle said in Message 92?
You don't need to pay your workers more to provide better service. While this unfortunately still true, we can grow out of being a country run by assholes.
the majority will then go out and buy the cheapest sad indeed. ADVERTISING WORKS - the single most egregious condemnation of homo sapiens.- xongsmith, 5.7d
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I think another part of it is that it's harder to get a bunch of people to agree and take responsibility for everything than it is to just have one motherfucker in charge of the whole thing. So sayeth the willing subservient serf to the smiling king. Guess you're not a big fan of democracy ... but wait ... Why couldn't the "motherfucker in charge" be democratically elected by the people in the company? Isn't that how representative democracies work? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I don't know and I don't care. The arrangement we've made is agreeable to me. I'm happy. Where's the problem? So you appear to think you get a fair (enough) share. Side note: I wonder how much that satisfaction is due to knowing you get more wages than people working minimum wage.
quote: Seems to me this also goes to how people feel about their wages relative to the minimum wage.
My pay wasn't derived from their profits. If I want a share in the profits then I can buy stock. You pay comes out of overhead, which is taken out of gross returns to result in net returns, eg - profit. The larger your share is, the higher the overhead is, and if gross returns is not increased to compensate (raising prices), then it reduces net returns and profit. So it does come out of profit.
If I want a share in the profits then I can buy stock. And I have the option of using that money to get a share of the profits. Only if (a) your pay is large enough to leave you with the discretionary money (wages above living costs) to afford the stock and (b) if there is stock available to buy (not all companies issue stock). Would I be right in assuming you have some investments (IRA, savings, mutual funds, etc)? That gives you future security (that people on minimum wage don't have) and a feeling (satisfaction) that you are getting somewhere in the economy. You just aren't tied to how well the company succeeds the way people that earn a share of the profit in a co-op do.
I understand that, it's just not how we're doing business \_(ツ)_/ Nice ascii graphic. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I think not, kettle, just facts. I see you'renot immune from your favourite confirmation bias. Coops are a minority part of your economy - about $658bn out of $19 trillion. And before the American Revolution, the number of countries that were democratic was a minority of the forms of government in the world. Things have changed since then, things are changing now. The first reaction to oligarchic company operation was worker unions, workers coming together to cooperate and provide better returns for their members by having a stronger voice in negotiations with the owners. Unions are democratic cooperatives with elected leaders. Because of unions we have ...
quote: You can also include child labor laws and minimum wage laws. Just for starters. Still think cooperatives are an inconsequential share of the economy?
Co-ops are ok, but given that the model has been around forever, ... Really?
quote: So I guess the USA has been around forever ...
... you need to explain why they are still a minority part of modern economies. If thy're so obviously great, what's stopping them? What's stopping unions. Education and awareness of workers, lower-class and middle-class, that there is a better way. The American Revolution didn't happen spontaneously. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
RAZD writes: Still think cooperatives are an inconsequential share of the economy? Yes, because they are. You're confusing progressive liberal policy with cooperative companies.
So I guess the USA has been around forever ... Don't be a dick, you know I meant that co-ops have been around for a very long time - longer even than the form of company you're railing against, the limited company.
Education and awareness of workers, lower-class and middle-class, that there is a better way. The American Revolution didn't happen spontaneously. Right, a worker's revolution, how very un-American. If your country actually wanted more socially conscious policies and practices it would have voted for them, but even obviously beneficial things like good health care gets voted down let alone the sort of state intervention you're talking about. The USA is at the far right of modern democracies, it resists more socially creative and equality based policy and it appears to be where the majority of you want to be. But to get back to co-ops, the mechanisms have been in place to create them for hundreds of years, you need to work out why they haven't developed the way you'd like them to. I can give you some ideas if you like but you'll need to get your cognitative dissonance under control first.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
xongsmith writes: While this unfortunately still true, we can grow out of being a country run by assholes. The rest of the developed world is desperate for this to happen. But we fear the worst - at least for a while.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
You said:
But it doesn't mean that no-one would specialise in a niche where customer service matters.quote:and I replied: quote:You could have just agreed with me from the start.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
ringo writes: You could have just agreed with me from the start. But then I'd have been wrong too.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Since you're (now) saying the same thing I said, no.
But then I'd have been wrong too.
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