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Author Topic:   The Tension of Faith
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1083 of 1540 (824909)
12-05-2017 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1082 by 1.61803
12-04-2017 5:48 PM


Re: the nature of evidence
1.61803 writes:
If something exist that is supernatural then it must somehow be outside the bounds of our physical universe. If it is then how can it interact with things?
You mean like dark energy or dark matter?

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1082 by 1.61803, posted 12-04-2017 5:48 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1084 by jar, posted 12-05-2017 7:29 AM GDR has not replied
 Message 1085 by 1.61803, posted 12-05-2017 11:02 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1086 of 1540 (824926)
12-05-2017 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1085 by 1.61803
12-05-2017 11:02 AM


Re: the nature of evidence
..and in answer to jar, I'm not saying that it is supernatural but it is outside the bounds of our physical universe.
There was an interesting headline on the cover of my copy of Scientific American a few years ago.
It was " Hidden Worlds of Dark Matter- An entire universe may be interwoven silently with our own". You tell me - would that be supernatural?

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1085 by 1.61803, posted 12-05-2017 11:02 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1088 by 1.61803, posted 12-05-2017 11:25 AM GDR has not replied
 Message 1090 by Percy, posted 12-05-2017 11:46 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1099 of 1540 (824957)
12-05-2017 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1090 by Percy
12-05-2017 11:46 AM


Re: the nature of evidence
Percy writes:
Dark energy is just a name for the effect causing our universe to expand, but we don't know what it actually is yet. However, since it is having so dramatic an effect on our universe, it is definitely a part of it.
In that case then so are miracles, (on the assumption that they really happened), are a part of our physical universe because they effect it as well.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1090 by Percy, posted 12-05-2017 11:46 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1100 by Tangle, posted 12-05-2017 4:07 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 1106 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 3:27 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1107 of 1540 (825033)
12-06-2017 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1106 by Percy
12-06-2017 3:27 PM


Re: the nature of evidence
Percy writes:
Anything detectable and therefore amenable to study is part of our physical universe. Got a miracle for us to study?
Creation

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1106 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 3:27 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1108 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 4:15 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1122 of 1540 (825062)
12-07-2017 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1108 by Percy
12-06-2017 4:15 PM


Re: the nature of evidence
Percy writes:
Which one? The one described in Genesis, or the one we're already studying concerning how the Big Bang came about? If the former, how do you propose we study this scientifically? If the latter, what makes it a miracle?
The fact that the universe came into existence from essentially nothing,and from in that sentient life was able to evolve.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1108 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 4:15 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1123 by Percy, posted 12-07-2017 10:31 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1130 of 1540 (825088)
12-07-2017 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1123 by Percy
12-07-2017 10:31 AM


Re: the nature of evidence
Percy writes:
This is currently an area of active study. What came before the Big Bang isn't known. "Essentially nothing" is only one of the possibilities. No hint of any miracles has yet emerged from any observation or theoretical analysis. But they'll keep looking and thinking.
i'm not talking about anything before the BB. As I understand it there was a point where time=0 and the question of what was before that is meaningless.
A singularity is as close to nothing as you can get and from minimal understanding it was essentially energy anyway and without a physical dimension. From that comes the universe as we know it today. Looks pretty miraculous to me.
Percy writes:
Not the origin of life? Just the evolution of "sentient life," by which you must mean us? Well, okay. Where do you see the miracle? We're pretty much just like other mammals. Some have bigger, sharper teeth, some are faster, some have thicker fur, and some have bigger brains, like us. The evolution of our brains is an area of very active research.
When asked for a miracle to study you suggested "Creation" in your Message 1107, then when asked to be more specific you produced the two suggestions I considered above, and both are already areas of active research.
But you interpreted the request backwards. When I asked in Message 1106 if you had any miracles for us to study, it wasn't a request for suggestions for where to look for miracles. It was a request that you point us at an actual miracle that we already *know* (supposedly) is a miracle we can study.
We know that creation exists and I claiming that as a miracle that as you keep saying is being studied.
Percy writes:
This is just one man's opinion of the top 10 miracles, and feel free to select your own miracle for study from anywhere you like, but at least this list provides you a starting point.
As you well know the Biblical claims of miracles are, if they happened, one time events and aren't available for study. I have answered your question, and selected a miracle by giving you what is the biggest miracle of all, which is being studied and you simply reject it.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1123 by Percy, posted 12-07-2017 10:31 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1131 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2017 2:33 AM GDR has not replied
 Message 1135 by Percy, posted 12-08-2017 9:23 AM GDR has not replied

  
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