Christian conversion experience: descriptions/analysis/links: input invited

Gilgamesh, you may know that I was and am a born again Christian. As of late, I have backed away from church involvement and have experimented with other belief systems...one of the reasons that I like to hang out at this site! I never get affirming patson the back, here...which is what I need to test my faith.I read through that website by Dick Sutphen. He seems genuine to me, and is in no way against God or spirituality. He points out that nobody can trult be immune from brainwashing techniques, however..so i wonder how you claim to be immune from such entrapments!I was "born again" and converted through a cultlike church and thought that many of the rituals were wrong...even though I was a believer. We had demons cast out of people and I saw genuine reactions to such stuff...This is interesting, and worthy of more of my time to study. Sutphen emphasizes that most preachers are unaware of this technique and use it through copying "what works" from other preachers.SCHRAFF====If you read this, know that I have FINALLY found something that both you and I agree to be real!Add by edit: Oops..I am a bit wary! This guy is one of those new age people from my sisters hometown of Sedona, Arizona! They can't be any worse than fundies, though...can they???This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-08-2005 01:32 AM

First off, in my Admin mode, I will have to agree with Gilgamesh, Faith. You need to respect his topic, here. This admonition is coming from a fellow believer.
************************************************************ I still believe that I have found Jesus...in the midst of all of the fakery, "enlightened" discoveries, and psuedo-religious ideologies. In that respect, I am still a believer. Are you suggesting that I accept things empirically? Skeptically? Cautiously? If so, I probably agree with you. I would caution you to be careful at rejecting things totally. Completely. Obviously. Because truth is often anything but obvious. The church was a non-denominational newly formed group of Charismatics. The Pastor was flashy and had a flare for the dramatic. People had demons cast out of them and showed emotional catharsis of a wide variety...from throwing up to screaming. I was always skeptical, but there was a sense of power and mystery in this process. I know that you may say that I am too quick to label the unknown as "supernatural", but I fear that you have ruled this option out entirely. I will tell you some more stories later...gotta go for now. Thanks, Gilgamesh!

As Believers, we often try so hard to convince everyone else to be agreeable to the absolute that we have embraced. This is human nature and is common among Christians. Consider, however, that it was God Himself who reached out to humanity...ourselves collectively in a total disagreeable state...and accepted (created) the possibility that ALL can be saved. Even though He basically says that many are called and few chosen, He never makes "many" or "few" an absolute value. He is thus saying that a majority will be called and a minority chosen. Similarly, we as Christians need to realize that there will surely be many others who will NEVER agree with us...and yet...like God...we must keep the door always open. It is not for us to warn them that it will soon shut! It is not for us to choose except to choose Him! (sorry, Gilgamesh...I wandered a bit off topic...PB)This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-09-2005 02:15 AM

When you speak of "we" you surely cannot include everyone...nor even a majority of people. This "we" ....who are they? I can say that God imagined man long before man had "evolved" even to the point of being able to imagine God. God may not be able to be provable by "science" but He surely has not been conclusively disproven, either.Lets all keep our minds open, here...much of what a person believes IS..of course because of what you call emotional investment. I would assert that you have quite an emotional investment in human potential. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing. I only maintain that human intelligence is not the apex of a belief system, however. And I would not cringe if all of what I have determined to be "supernatural" in my experience was to be debunked. I believe that I told you once about the time that I distinctly heard several voices at once coming from someone.
1)The event was witnessed by two other friends.
2) I have ruled out that I was being tricked by them. One can know their friends well enough to eventually expose such a joke were it perpetrated.
3) The setting was in my apartment at 2 a.m.
4) I felt a static electrical feeling accompanying these voices.
5) Nobody was influenced by any sort of intoxicants, and we were not expecting such an event to occur..in fact, it woke me up.
6) I will allow one variable...we have never invested our emotional energy into disproving this event.
7) This cannot be re-enacted, so I cannot expect you to believe it.I maintain that even though science is based on facts and empiricism, the emotional investment towards a logical measureable world overseen by human reasoning can in itself be an emotional investment.After all, if I were even partly right and God (and/or spiritual realm) DID exist, you would have to re-evaluate your entire belief system. Same as I would should the reverse apply.I don't buy the claims that dismiss the Bible as entirely irrefutable. There are many respected scholatrs who disagree and say that the book is credible.In other words, there is simply no conclusive evidence that I have yet to accept. Partly because I believe that humans are themselves imperfect and liable to taint the evidence to agree with their preconceptions.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-11-2005 10:28 AM

Wow! The fact that you have hung in there when the church has not always been kind or understanding shows me that you are where you should be. Christians are notorious for killing their own wounded with the sword. (the word of God itself) Gods Spirit is with everyone on the planet, but God only comes in to those who trust Him and ask Him...either verbally or innately. I would think that you, despite being hurt by people, have always trusted God.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-16-2005 10:32 AM

Hey, Ringo.. I grant that I am a Christian that accepts many of the definitions of "organised religion". I believe that in our lives it is not so much a matter of trying to live right as it is personally trusting God. as Christians, i believe that some of our best personal growth and awareness come at times that we are on our own---away from the singing, shouting, stomping, and judging.My creed in life these days is to live as good a life as I can yet knowing that the moments that I can talk (or listen) to God everyday are shaping my character. Works done by me should be joyful, spontaneous, and birthed in this character that He is forming in me.It is not about making it happen. It is about allowing it to happen.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-16-2005 01:26 PM

You were obviously chock full of demons! The only problem that I see is that your janitorial friend had even more of them using him to make a fool of his conversion experience!Quite seriously, all that I want to urge you to do is to enjoy your life and keep any thoughts that you have about spirituality private.You never know which of us fundies are listening, ready to pounce!

What is your opinion on prayer? We have talked lately about how evil the God of Calvinism is, but if you have ever seen the Jimmy Stewart movie, It's A Wonderful Life you know the scenes where George Bailey talks to God in prayer. Is it so silly to believe that a Deity could hear our prayers? In my opinion, talking/praying is therapeutic.