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The "science" of Miracles

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Author Topic:   The "science" of Miracles
Taq
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Message 29 of 696 (825354)
12-13-2017 4:10 PM 		Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
12-13-2017 11:20 AM

Re: How can there be such a "science" anyway?
Faith writes:
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In the case of phenomena that do not leave evidence and are not replicable you can't just make that fact into evidence against it. Lack of evidence obviously is not evidence that the phenomenon did not occur at all.
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If there is no evidence for miracles, then why believe a miracle happened at all?
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Taq
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Message 56 of 696 (825408)
12-14-2017 5:39 PM 		Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
12-13-2017 4:38 PM

Re: How can there be such a "science" anyway?
Faith writes:
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Because of the tons of witness evidence. That's the point.
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If you are talking about the gospels, those are second and third hand accounts, and are also suspect because they are coming from people who are trying to start a religion based on those gospels. You need disinterested (i.e. unbiased) first person eye witness accounts, not hearsay from biased authors.
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Taq
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Message 82 of 696 (825526)
12-15-2017 4:30 PM 		Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
12-14-2017 6:33 PM

Re: How can there be such a "science" anyway?
Faith writes:
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The gospels have been understood for two millennia to be honest accounts by honest people.
​
That's an assumption, not evidence.
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Taq
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Message 83 of 696 (825527)
12-15-2017 4:31 PM 		Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
12-14-2017 6:30 PM

Re: Definition Of Terms
Faith writes:
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We're talking about something WITNESSED by people that doesn't happen to leave physical evidence.
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It is ASSERTED WITHOUT EVIDENCE that people witnessed something. Stories don't become true because you write them down in a book.
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Taq
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Message 384 of 696 (826795)
01-09-2018 4:33 PM 		Reply to: Message 383 by Phat
01-09-2018 12:41 PM

Re: Consensus
Phat writes:
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Everyone is trying to get you to accept the possibility of miracles. You evidently conclude that belief without evidence should be discarded. I am trying to find out why you feel this way.
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Accepting a possibility and believing something to be true are not the same thing.
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Is it possible that you have won the Powerball twice in the last 10 years? I guess it is possible, but I don't believe you have. Without evidence, is there any reason why I should believe you have won the Powerball lottery twice in the last 10 years? Just because something is possible does not mean it happened, and no amount of begging is going to make them into the same ting.
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If all we have is a bare assertion that something is true, then why shouldn't we discard that assertion until there is evidence to support it? Otherwise, anything we make up at the drop of the hat would have to be considered true until proven otherwise, and that makes no sense.
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Taq
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Message 477 of 696 (827962)
02-06-2018 12:24 PM 		Reply to: Message 476 by ringo
02-06-2018 12:01 PM

Re: Consensus
ringo writes:
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So what's the difference between technology and magic or miracles? One man's technology is another man's magic.
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It is one thing to say that it is magic and/or a miracle. It is yet another to say that you don't know what caused it. What we seem to be pointing to is a Miracle of the Gaps.
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The point is that the attribution is what counts. One person attributes a UFO, etc. to unnatural causes and one person attributes the same phenomenon to (known or unknown) natural causes.
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A third person simply reiterates that it is an unknown flying object and doesn't point to either a natural or unnatural cause.
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Taq
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Message 498 of 696 (828092)
02-09-2018 5:22 PM 		Reply to: Message 496 by Phat
02-09-2018 12:17 PM

Re: Bridge Analogy Re-examined
Phat writes:
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Are all scientists agnostic by definition?
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I don't know.
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Can there ever be a science regarding miracles?
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Sort of, I guess. Miracles are little more than arguments from ignorance, so science could start with "I don't know" and then try to figure it out. Miracles are also often based on poor observations, so science could easily ferret those out.
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When you went to church, you never found evidence. Will you remain agnostic your entire life or will you declare atheism and stop looking?
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Atheism and agnosticism are two different things. There are agnostic theists, gnostic atheists, and gnostic Christians. Agnosticism is a statement about what we know. Atheism is a statement about what we believe.
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"Agnostic isn’t just a weaker version of being an atheist. It answers a different question. Atheism is about what you believe. Agnosticism is about what you know."--American Atheists
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Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq
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Posts: 10073
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Message 540 of 696 (828233)
02-14-2018 4:30 PM 		Reply to: Message 499 by Tangle
02-09-2018 5:49 PM

Re: Bridge Analogy Re-examined
Tangle writes:
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Agnostics don't exist. You either believe in god(s) or you don't. If you don't know whether you believe in god(s) or not, you don't believe in god(s).
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Christian agnostics would beg to differ.
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Christian agnosticism - Wikipedia
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Taq
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Posts: 10073
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Member Rating: 5.2

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Message 542 of 696 (828235)
02-14-2018 5:55 PM 		Reply to: Message 541 by Tangle
02-14-2018 5:27 PM

Re: Bridge Analogy Re-examined
Tangle writes:
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Agnosticism is not a real thing. It's a total invention. People believe or they do not.
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Belief is described by atheism/theism. A/gnostic is about the ability to gain knowledge.
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