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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Taq
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Posts: 10021
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(4)
Message 1546 of 4573 (825352)
12-13-2017 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1544 by NoNukes
12-13-2017 2:16 PM


Re: Trump's "glass half full"
"Trailer half full" was the first phrase that came to my mind.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22472
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1547 of 4573 (825359)
12-13-2017 5:13 PM


Our President's Opposite
Warning, this one's a tear jerker: Joe Biden and Meghan McCain share a moment
If our liar-twit-bully-misogynist-racist-in-chief, Mr. Trump, shows even the briefest moment of genuine compassion during this season of hope and cheer, please post it here.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22472
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 1548 of 4573 (825366)
12-13-2017 8:00 PM


George F. Will Editorial
George F. Will, a conservative, has been around for a long time, and I hope he's around for a lot longer. Reading a George F. Will editorial can almost make one feel blessed. In today's Washington Post he outdoes himself in Trump’s Moore endorsement sunk the presidency to unplumbed depths.
The editorial is best enjoyed by reading it from it's beginning, but (spoiler alert) here's some teasers to get those reluctant to click to change their minds. From the conclusion:
quote:
He completed his remarkably swift it has taken less than 11 months rescue of the 17th, Andrew Johnson, from the ignominy of ranking as the nation’s worst president.
If that's not enough, here are some further gems to whet your appetite:
  • This fleeting swerve into fastidiousness about facts came hard on the heels of his retweeting of a video of a Muslim immigrant in the Netherlands beating a young man holding crutches. Except the villain was born and raised in the Netherlands. Undaunted, Trump’s remarkably pliant spokesperson, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, defended her employer from the nitpickers: What matters, she said, is not that the video is unreal but that the threat (of turbulent Dutchmen?) is real.
  • He [Roy Moore] is an anti-constitutional recidivist, twice removed from Alabama’s highest court for his theocratic insistence that his religious convictions take precedence over U.S. Supreme Court decisions, so he could not have sincerely sworn to support and defend the Constitution and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same.
  • When reports of Sen. Al Franken’s misbehaviors against adult women surfaced, the National Republican Congressional Committee pounced: Democrats who took Senator Franken’s campaign money need to . . . return his donations. (Combined, they totaled $15,500.) When, 18 days later, Trump endorsed Moore, the Republican National Committee immediately sent $170,000 to Alabama. If the RNC, which accurately represents the president’s portion of the party, did not have situational ethics it would have none.
  • The self-described values voters and Evangelicals of pious vanity who have embraced Trump and his Alabama echo have some repenting to do before trying to reclaim their role as arbiters of Republican, and American, righteousness. We have, alas, not heard the last from them, but henceforth the first reaction to their witness should be resounding guffaws.
  • Alabama, however, has perhaps initiated the inevitable sorting of Republicans who retain a capacity for disgust from the Vichy Republicans who have none.
I think I left in more than I left out, but George is worthy.
--Percy

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 1549 of 4573 (825373)
12-14-2017 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1541 by 1.61803
12-13-2017 9:25 AM


Re: Accusers Call for Congressional Investigation
My apologies Percy, I was being facetious about SHS comments.
I was simply predicting what her statement will be.
"liar, liar, pants on fire." seems to be all they got.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18292
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1550 of 4573 (825382)
12-14-2017 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1547 by Percy
12-13-2017 5:13 PM


Re: Our President's Opposite
Both Joe Biden and John McCain are class acts in my book. We need more leaders like them.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1551 of 4573 (825386)
12-14-2017 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1550 by Phat
12-14-2017 12:01 PM


Re: Our President's Opposite
Phat writes:
Both Joe Biden and John McCain are class acts in my book. We need more leaders like them.
If it wasn't for evil, we wouldn't appreciate good?

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1552 of 4573 (825388)
12-14-2017 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1542 by Percy
12-13-2017 12:01 PM


results not bellweather some think it is
My opinion of yesterday's Alabama election results runs contrary to most editorials in the main stream media - I think it provides little hope. This is not a case of a state rejecting Trumpian values, but of a large turnout just barely managing a win in a state that mostly supports lies, deceit, misogyny, racism and ignoring constitutional law. And there would have been no win had it not been for the added dimension of a scandal involving young girls.
This is the problem I have:
quote:
Results
Candidate Party Votes %
Doug Jones Democrat 671,151 49.9
Roy Moore Republican 650,436 48.4
Write-In - 22,819 1.7

People that did not vote for Doug Jones = 50.1% (673,255), and they will likely vote against him in the next election, unless there is more change/disagreement with Trump in the interim.
People that did not vote for Roy Moore = 51.6% (693,970), so he definitely lost, but a different candidate may have won.
While good for the interim, the future is not certain and this is no bellweather/test of Trumps continued appeal in the south.
We can hope that many Trump voters are disillusioned, and that more will become so - especially if the tax scam passes and come April they are paying more in taxes - but I don't think this is a big message in that direction.
On an up note, part of these results is due to the ACLU working tirelessly to restore voting rights to Alabama citizens that had served their time for their crimes -- reportedly thousands of voters, who were overjoyed at the opportunity to vote.
We can hope for more positive results from this hard working group (and if you aren't a member already, now may be a good time to join). Just as we can hope for some positive results from lawsuits on gerrymandering and voter ID laws.
Certainly the 2018 elections will be very interesting if voting rights are restored and #MeToo sexual harassment suits force many incumbents to resign or to be defeated in primaries.
Time will tell.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1553 of 4573 (825390)
12-14-2017 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1543 by jar
12-13-2017 12:27 PM


National Land give-away
And once you give away the National Lands it is nearly impossible to get them back. You can't undo rape and that is what is happening today in the US.
Curiously, according to some information I have seen, the statute gives presidents the power to add lands to monuments, etc, but does not mention (perhaps no one thought they would) the power to remove lands.
Could be an interesting question for the lawyers. Anyone have comments?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1554 of 4573 (825394)
12-14-2017 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1542 by Percy
12-13-2017 12:01 PM


Re: Accusers Call for Congressional Investigation
This is not a case of a state rejecting Trumpian values, but of a large turnout just barely managing a win in a state that mostly supports lies, deceit, misogyny, racism and ignoring constitutional law. And there would have been no win had it not been for the added dimension of a scandal involving young girls.
I think you are missing the place wherein the hope lies. What is encouraging is the turnout for Democrats which is head and shoulders above what we've seen in off-cycle elections. The win, which as you say, may not result in a second term for Jones is icing.
I would speak similarly regarding the elections in Virginia, which the Democrats won handily, and the past election in Georgia in which the Democratic candidate lost. And there are other examples that can be cited, like the past election in Tulsa.
Yes, it is still the case that recognition that Trump is unsuitable is slow among his base, but even there, Trump appears to be suffering the death of a thousand cuts. Trump's core support is very strong and includes some number of folks we should never expect to change. But Trump's approval rating among Republicans is well out of that mid eighty to ninety range it was at just a month ago.
I totally agree with your assessment of what went on in Alabama. But I think your remarks miss something pretty important. And in the short term, even 1 less Republican Senator, something that won't happen until after Christmas, is a good thing.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1555 of 4573 (825396)
12-14-2017 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1542 by Percy
12-13-2017 12:01 PM


And now for a different breakdown of the votes
Here's a different breakdown of the votes:
quote:
Black America-The Backbone of Jones’ Victory and the Democratic Party:
Doug Jones won on the strength of the Black vote.
... it is an unequivocal demonstration that Black America is the backbone of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party cannot win without us. Moving forward, the Democratic Party must invest time and resources in the Black community if it is to win at all.
... any strategy for Democrats to win must include addressing racially motivated voter suppression tactics so that gerrymandering and voting intimidation is overcome, voting suppression efforts are punished and neutralized, and a new Voting Rights Act, if not an amendment, is instituted to ensure these racially motivated policies stemming from the 18th century never again occur in the 21st century and beyond. This starts with improving voter engagement related efforts. It ends with legally ending racially based gerrymandering and suppression.
... a progressive movement seeking to capture political power must recognize that the civil rights Black Americans continue to fight for must be given the same credence as the economic rights laborers fight for, the same credence as reproductive rights women fight for, and the same credence as the rights fought for by the LGBTQ+ community. A progressive movement seeking to capture political power must become a new and true rainbow coalition where Blackness is a vibrant part of the color palate.
This offers some additional hope for the future, as republicans have isolated themselves into the bunker of male white voters, while the demographics evolving to make them more and more a bitter vocal minority.
This holds for latino and other minority groups, as America will be more racially equitable when there is no majority in power.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10021
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1556 of 4573 (825410)
12-14-2017 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1554 by NoNukes
12-14-2017 1:27 PM


Re: Accusers Call for Congressional Investigation
NoNukes writes:
Yes, it is still the case that recognition that Trump is unsuitable is slow among his base, but even there, Trump appears to be suffering the death of a thousand cuts. Trump's core support is very strong and includes some number of folks we should never expect to change. But Trump's approval rating among Republicans is well out of that mid eighty to ninety range it was at just a month ago.
At some point people from the middle class and below will notice that no one is building a wall, their tax bill is about the same while the rich are getting a massive tax break, and a long list of other unfulfilled promises. Republican healthcare system? Nowhere to be found.
What happens next? I think I will grab some popcorn, kick back in the recliner . . .

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22472
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1557 of 4573 (825468)
12-15-2017 9:25 AM


The Sexual Misconduct Charges Against Donald Trump
Many women have come forward with accusations of sexual harassment and molestation by now President Donald Trump. Here's the brief YouTube video from this past November of 16 of the accusers in their own words:
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22472
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1558 of 4573 (825470)
12-15-2017 9:37 AM


The Biggest Pinocchios of 2017
The Washington Post has run an article listing the biggest lies of 2017: The biggest Pinocchios of 2017. Not all the Pinocchios are Donald Trump, but many of them are Trump or surrogates, so I post this here. The article is worth reading, but I summarize the biggest lies of 2017 here:
  • Trump: I just found out Obama wiretapped me
  • Trump: This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration period
  • Trump: The Russia story is fake news
  • Trump: This is the biggest tax cut in U.S. history
  • Steven Mnuchin, Secretary of the Treasury: The tax bill will pay for itself
  • Bernie Sanders: 36,000 people will die yearly if Republicans repeal Obamacare
  • Trump: No president has done more in so short a time
  • Senator Kamal D. Harris (D-CA): 129 million people with preexisting conditions could be denied coverage
  • Tom Perez, Democratic National Committee Chairman: Tax benefits for colleges and students were killed to give a tax break to private jet owners
  • Susan E. Rice, Obama National Security Adviser: We got Syria to verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile
  • Trump: This is all because of me
  • Trump: The King of Flip-Flops
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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 Message 1564 by Rrhain, posted 12-16-2017 1:27 AM Percy has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1559 of 4573 (825485)
12-15-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1558 by Percy
12-15-2017 9:37 AM


Re: The Biggest Pinocchios of 2017
om Perez, Democratic National Committee Chairman: Tax benefits for colleges and students were killed to give a tax break to private jet owners
Okay, where is the lie here?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1558 by Percy, posted 12-15-2017 9:37 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1560 by Percy, posted 12-15-2017 1:54 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22472
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1560 of 4573 (825514)
12-15-2017 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1559 by NoNukes
12-15-2017 10:53 AM


Re: The Biggest Pinocchios of 2017
NoNukes writes:
Tom Perez, Democratic National Committee Chairman: Tax benefits for colleges and students were killed to give a tax break to private jet owners
Okay, where is the lie here?
Finally mentioning this just so you know, some issue with your pointing device causes you to very frequently miss the first character of a quote. This just happened again, and I fixed it in my above quote, but in your original you'll see that you said "om Perez" instead of "Tom Perez".
This one surprised me, too, because it seemed so minor compared to the others. Here's that part of the The biggest Pinocchios of 2017 article:
quote:
Tax benefits for colleges and students were killed to give a tax break to private jet owners
Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez was one of several Democrats (including Harris) who jumped on reports that there was a provision in the Senate tax bill that provided regulatory clarity on a tax that has never successfully been imposed on private jet management companies. Perez falsely called it a tax break that came at the expense of college students. The tax provision is so minor that the cost to the Treasury is under $50,000 a year less than the tuition and fees for one student at Harvard University.
I interpreted this as saying two things:
  • There's no actual connection in the tax bill between college related tax benefits and taxes on private jets.
  • Even if there were, the amount of money involved is so tiny as to affect only a single student at a premier university.
Your mileage may vary, but that's how I interpreted it.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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