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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
nally mentioning this just so you know, some issue with your pointing device causes you to very frequently miss the first character of a quote. It's not the pointer. It's strictly my use of the pointer. Is the error of some import?
There's no actual connection in the tax bill between college related tax benefits and taxes on private jets. Even if there were, the amount of money involved is so tiny as to affect only a single student at a premier university. In short, calling the original statement a lie is pretty much indefensible. There is no reason for taking the benefit away other than to try to lessen the impact of the entire tax bill on the deficit. I suspect that someone is trying to make the list l appear a bit less partisan by making sure there are a number of "lefty" lies on the list. I am not impressed. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
NoNukes writes: nally mentioning this just so you know, some issue with your pointing device causes you to very frequently miss the first character of a quote.
It's not the pointer. It's strictly my use of the pointer. Is the error of some import? o, not at all. ou just seem like a precise kind of guy, so I thought the fact that it kept happening meant it might be something you weren't aware of - after all, who proofreads the paste of a cut-n-paste, so I figured it must have escaped your notice. orget I said anything.
In short, calling the original statement a lie is pretty much indefensible. There is no reason for taking the benefit away other than to try to lessen the impact of the entire tax bill on the deficit. I agree with that last sentence, but about the first, there was no connection in the Senate tax bill version between college related tax benefits and taxes on jet planes, but DNC chairman Tom Perez said there was. They didn't call it a lie, they called it a Pinocchio. See About The Fact Checker at the Washington Post for the details of their Pinocchio rating system. I assume that to make the list a statement had to achieve a rating of 4 Pinocchios, which they define simply as "Whoppers." More generally they seem to define a Pinocchio as a false or misleading comment.
I suspect that someone is trying to make the list l appear a bit less partisan by making sure there are a number of "lefty" lies on the list. I am not impressed. I agree that the Perez comment shouldn't have made the list of top Pinocchios, but I do find the efforts of the media to track lies commendable and laudable. --Percy
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I agree with that last sentence, but about the first, there was no connection in the Senate tax bill version between college related tax benefits and taxes on jet planes, but DNC chairman Tom Perez said there was. No, that's not what he said. His statement was not intended to be taken to imply a direct one to one correspondence. His statement would apply to any tax break or to any class of rich folks who are getting tax breaks. Not a lie at all. ABE: The provision for taxing grad students did not make it into the reconciled legislation according to what I read minutes ago on CNN. The provision was not in the Senate bill and apparently did not make it into the bill that will be voted on to go to the president's desk. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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I generally like the WaPo, but they do have some issues.
They give the following justification for Sanders' quote:
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) conjured up this striking statistic by accepting a high estimate for the number of people who would lose insurance if Republicans killed the Affordable Care Act without any replacement. (That never happened.) Then he used mortality figures for what happened when people gained insurance in Massachusetts, not if they lost insurance nationwide. The result was the kind of scare statistic that lacks credibility and gives politics a bad name. But the thing is, we already had this calculation back when the ACA was being debated. Harvard Medical School produced a study in 2009 that indicated that 45,000 deaths each year due to lack of insurance. If we were to repeal the ACA and not replace it, we would go back to that situation we had before and there's no reason that people without health insurance would suddenly not die. Regarding Harris' comments, the Post again seems to be confusing speculation with lying. If the ACA is repealed and insurance companies can start denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions, then there's no reason to think that they wouldn't start doing so. Especially since the Republican plans for healthcare is to allow insurance companies to do so (they were already engaging in recission to try and kick people off insurance once they got sick and tried to make a claim), there's no reason to think they wouldn't.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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This one surprised me, too, because it seemed so minor compared to the others. Here's that part of the The biggest Pinocchios of 2017 article:
quote: I interpreted this as saying two things:
Curiously I take as hyperbole to emphasize a point. It would have been more accurate to say Tax benefits for colleges and students were killed, but they give a tax benefit to private jet owners Showing that it is all about different priorities. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Well, it's finally official; George Carlin did not know what the Seven Forbidden Words were!
This has to be a new triumph of COMEDY!
quote: George; I bet you're sorry you did not stick around to see this routine! Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
NoNukes writes: No, that's not what he said. His statement was not intended to be taken to imply a direct one to one correspondence. Here's what Tom Perez, DNC Chairman, said:
quote: To me this declares that there was "a direct one to one correspondence" between "Tax benefits for colleges and students" on the one hand and "a tax break to private jet owners" on the other, so we'll just have to disagree about the meaning of plain English. But I delved into this a little more, and if you give Does the Senate tax bill really offer a tax break for private jets, as key Democrats claim? a read you'll find that what the WP quoted in their "Biggest Pinocchios" article is not what Perez actually tweeted, which was:
quote: That is nowhere near as direct a connection as the other quote. In fact, it looks like nothing more than a sarcastic comment about how the bill hurt higher education and while benefiting private jet owners. It looks innocuous and deserving of maybe a single Pinocchio for getting it wrong that private jet owners received a tax break. I hereby award the Washington Post four Pinocchios, and I now agree with you that that one didn't belong in the list. I'd argue the point with the WP, but I'm not a subscriber, so there are no comment channels open to me. The only reason I can read it at all is because I block Javascript on their pages. I should subscribe, but I already subscribe to the NYT, and I can't afford another subscription.
The provision for taxing grad students did not make it into the reconciled legislation according to what I read minutes ago on CNN. Oh, that's wonderful news. I know people who would have been affected. They've been going crazy. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Rrhain writes: But the thing is, we already had this calculation back when the ACA was being debated. Harvard Medical School produced a study in 2009 that indicated that 45,000 deaths each year due to lack of insurance. If we were to repeal the ACA and not replace it, we would go back to that situation we had before and there's no reason that people without health insurance would suddenly not die. If you look at Bernie Sanders’s claim that ‘36,000 people will die yearly’ if Obamacare is repealed you'll see that more recent numbers are available now, and you'll see discussed why they gave Bernie four Pinocchios.
Regarding Harris' comments,... The blurb says that Harris incorrectly characterized the GOP plan as denying coverage to people with preexisting conditions, and that she confused employer-provided insurance with individual insurance, and in that way arrived at a figure nearly an order of magnitude larger than the total number of people in the individual market regulated by the ACA. The bad math alone seems to make it a four Pinocchio remark. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
3 Ways Trump Or His Allies Might Try To Disrupt The Mueller Russia Probe
The three ways are:
The article expounds the idea behind each possibility.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Due to the new imperial edict from Trump Ego Tower comes this report
by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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It looks innocuous and deserving of maybe a single Pinocchio for getting it wrong that private jet owners received a tax break. Sigh. Jet owners was surely meant as a euphemism for "really rich folks". No direct connection between tax benefits was ever intended. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
NoNukes writes: Sigh. Jet owners was surely meant as a euphemism for "really rich folks". No direct connection between tax benefits was ever intended. No, this would be incorrect. This is discussed in detail in Does the Senate tax bill really offer a tax break for private jets, as key Democrats claim?, whose link also appeared in the message you just replied to. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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The Republican tax bill has passed, President Trump will sign it, then it will be the law of the land. Speaking at today's signing President Trump made two admissions:
See Trump just admitted the GOP’s tax cuts were deceptively sold --Percy Edited by Percy, : Correct that Trump hasn't signed the bill yet. Evidently there was no signing at yesterday's ceremony. Trump may wait until January to sign the bill.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined:
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"Jared Kushner will save up to $12m, while five other members of Trump’s inner circle will also see benefits worth millions of dollars"
It seems a last minute bill was added to provide massive benefits to real estate firms, notably a loophole that trump personally benefits from with his golf courses. can any Trump supporter please explain how this is defensible? anyone? Trump will personally save up to $15m under tax bill, analysis finds | Donald Trump | The Guardian Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But wait; there's more.
The Corporate Tax portions were made permanent. They cannot be undone by a future Congress without great difficulty.
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