Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8871 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-23-2018 5:17 PM
259 online now:
14174dm, GDR, PaulK, Percy (Admin), Phat (AdminPhat), Son Goku, Taq (7 members, 252 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: paradigm of types
Upcoming Birthdays: DrJones*
Post Volume:
Total: 840,653 Year: 15,476/29,783 Month: 1,420/1,502 Week: 177/241 Day: 56/74 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
45678
9
Author Topic:   What Is A Christian (Remix)
Phat
Member
Posts: 11328
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 121 of 133 (433729)
11-12-2007 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Brian
10-10-2007 4:22 PM


Re: Got to let you guys know..
Brian writes:

Well Christians tell me that Jesus and His daddy are one and the same!

One, yet not the same. Jesus died. God never died.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Brian, posted 10-10-2007 4:22 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Brian, posted 11-13-2007 12:31 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 2886 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 122 of 133 (433889)
11-13-2007 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Phat
11-12-2007 7:56 PM


Re: Got to let you guys know..
Well He didn't really die, he just ahd a three day seminar series in Hell, then He was up running about again with His mates.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 11-12-2007 7:56 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11328
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 123 of 133 (442920)
12-23-2007 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
10-04-2007 12:05 PM


Source versus Content
Jar writes:

I have said two things.

One that "The message of Jesus would be valid even if Jesus had only been myth and tales told around the campfire."

I have also said that while Jesus lived here among us, I believe he was fully human.

You and I often discuss the difference between source and content.

I usually take the position that the source of wisdom (which I believe to be GOD) is a necessary component of the value of that wisdom. You usually say that the source of wisdom is irrelevant, but that the content of the wisdom determines its value.

IF Jesus was just a myth and a story told around ancient campfires, the storytellers still would have to acquire their content from some sort of a source, wouldn't they?

In order to tell a good story around a campfire, one needs either:

  • experience
  • good teachers (such as other storytellers, which leads to the question of the source of wisdom for the very first storyteller)
  • Common sense (which usually is found through observation, logic, reason, and experience of reality).

    I guess my question is this: How can a good storyteller have good content without having good source(s)?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 4 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 12:05 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 124 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 12:31 PM Phat has responded

      
  • jar
    Member
    Posts: 30920
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 124 of 133 (443001)
    12-23-2007 12:31 PM
    Reply to: Message 123 by Phat
    12-23-2007 3:49 AM


    Re: Source versus Content
    I usually take the position that the source of wisdom (which I believe to be GOD) is a necessary component of the value of that wisdom.

    God told Marshal Applewhite to gather the folk and to abandon these husks. Great source, shitty message.

    It does not matter what the source is, you need to test the message against reason, logic and reality. God tells you to get a gun and go kill folk, you test message, decide it is stupid, say "Sorry big guy, no thanks."

    In order to tell a good story around a campfire, one needs either:
    # experience
    # good teachers (such as other storytellers, which leads to the question of the source of wisdom for the very first storyteller)
    # Common sense (which usually is found through observation, logic, reason, and experience of reality).

    I guess my question is this: How can a good storyteller have good content without having good source(s)?

    Basically all those are internal. You gather experiences by being a good observer. Those who simply float through this life don't really experience much of it. Observing, listening, like critical thinking are skills you learn.

    The first storyteller gained his talent the same way the last storyteller will.

    The thing you left out, and it is VERY important, is that to be a storyteller you also need imagination, you take ordinary, mundane, everyday things and embellish them. Some friends meet on the beach for a fish fry becomes they meet for a fish fry but forgot the fish. They pull in a net and wow, it is full of fish.

    Imagination and embellishment.


    Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 123 by Phat, posted 12-23-2007 3:49 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 125 by Phat, posted 11-21-2009 7:48 AM jar has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11328
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 125 of 133 (536273)
    11-21-2009 7:48 AM
    Reply to: Message 124 by jar
    12-23-2007 12:31 PM


    Re: Source versus Content
    Suspend-a-Jar writes:

    It does not matter what the source is, you need to test the message against reason, logic and reality.

    Funny, as I reread these old topics, but we indulge in exactly the same arguments today!
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 124 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 12:31 PM jar has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 126 by iano, posted 11-23-2009 7:23 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    iano
    Member (Idle past 1109 days)
    Posts: 6164
    From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
    Joined: 07-27-2005


    Message 126 of 133 (536450)
    11-23-2009 7:23 AM
    Reply to: Message 125 by Phat
    11-21-2009 7:48 AM


    Re: Source versus Content
    Phat writes:

    Funny, as I reread these old topics, but we indulge in exactly the same arguments today!

    It's not an argument Phat - and it never will be. It's the blindness which is manifested by unadulterated unbelief.

    Suspend-a-Jar writes:

    Some friends meet on the beach for a fish fry becomes they meet for a fish fry but forgot the fish. They pull in a net and wow, it is full of fish.

    Imagination and embellishment.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 125 by Phat, posted 11-21-2009 7:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    towiel
    Junior Member (Idle past 889 days)
    Posts: 4
    From: Linvingston, TX USA
    Joined: 12-30-2009


    Message 127 of 133 (542966)
    01-14-2010 5:23 AM


    Christian Traditions
    Hmmm ... I think we should be careful in our defining a 'Christian' versus defining a 'Believer'. Believers in the Messiah can include Christians, Messianic Jews, and other groups that are all rather different from one another in some doctrines yet all are trying to follow Scripture as best as they know.

    This link goes to an article that delineates 'Christians' by their traditions rather than their stance on belief in Messiah: http://ezinearticles.com/?Christian-Traditions---The-Top-...


        
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11328
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 128 of 133 (589409)
    11-02-2010 10:35 AM


    Who Dat Christian?
    Looks like some things never change! We are again talking about whether or not jar is a Christian and what the criteria are for such a title. Look back through this old topic and many of the issues will be brought up again.
    Replies to this message:
     Message 130 by jar, posted 12-19-2017 7:35 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 131 by RAZD, posted 12-19-2017 8:09 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11328
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 129 of 133 (825895)
    12-19-2017 6:42 AM
    Reply to: Message 99 by ringo
    10-05-2007 5:09 PM


    Re: Remix
    Phat writes:

    The issue seems to hinge on whether doing good simply for the sake of doing good carries as much weight with God as the concept of trusting in Him and allowing His Spirit to permeate your daily life.

    ringo writes:

    If we trust in Him and allow His Spirit to permeate our daily lives, what other effects could there be than doing good simply for the sake of doing good?

    Conversely, if somebody doesn't do good simply for the sake of doing good, how can he be trusting in God? And how can he be allowing God's Spirit to permeate his daily life?

    You were more open to how a believer thinks back then! Dont throw that away....

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 99 by ringo, posted 10-05-2007 5:09 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 132 by ringo, posted 12-19-2017 11:30 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 133 by Stile, posted 12-19-2017 2:51 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 30920
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 130 of 133 (825896)
    12-19-2017 7:35 AM
    Reply to: Message 128 by Phat
    11-02-2010 10:35 AM


    Re: Who Dat Christian?
    Phat writes:

    We are again talking about whether or not jar is a Christian and what the criteria are for such a title.

    Which just shows folk will talk about anything no matter how stupid it makes them appear.

    If someone is a member of the Elks Club, they are an Elk.

    If someone is a member of The Shriners, they are a Shriner.

    I am a member of a recognized Christian Denomination. That means once again, reality wins. Someone can question whether or not I am a Christian but that simply shows their utter ignorance and disconnect from reality.

    Some folk love to appear stupid it seems.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 128 by Phat, posted 11-02-2010 10:35 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    RAZD
    Member
    Posts: 19589
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004
    Member Rating: 3.2


    (1)
    Message 131 of 133 (825897)
    12-19-2017 8:09 AM
    Reply to: Message 128 by Phat
    11-02-2010 10:35 AM


    Re: Who Dat Christian?
    ... We are again talking about whether or not ______ is a Christian ...

    Fixed it for you.

    A Christian is anyone who self-identifies as a Christian. Period.

    Now, if someone says "______ is a not a true Christian" what do they really mean? They mean that they are not the same kind of Christian.

    Which is fine, imho, as there are hundred (if not thousands or millions) of different ways to be a Christian.

    In fact I would even go so far as to say that everyone that self-identifies as a Christian is different from everyone else that self-identifies as a Christian, that it means something different for each and every one of you.

    This is why there are so many sects, why every priest, pastor, etc goes about it differently. Every Christian is different.

    Enjoy


    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.


    • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 128 by Phat, posted 11-02-2010 10:35 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 15429
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.8


    Message 132 of 133 (825925)
    12-19-2017 11:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
    12-19-2017 6:42 AM


    Re: Remix
    Phat writes:

    You were more open to how a believer thinks back then! Dont throw that away....


    I am open to how a believer thinks but you could try thinking something new for a change.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 129 by Phat, posted 12-19-2017 6:42 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Stile
    Member
    Posts: 3244
    From: Ontario, Canada
    Joined: 12-02-2004
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 133 of 133 (825942)
    12-19-2017 2:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
    12-19-2017 6:42 AM


    Priorities
    Phat writes:

    The issue seems to hinge on whether doing good simply for the sake of doing good carries as much weight with God as the concept of trusting in Him and allowing His Spirit to permeate your daily life.

    So, what would you do?

    You are presented with a situation:

    1. You can do some good for the sake of doing good for a moment.
    BUT... in this moment you are unable to "trust in Him and allow His Spirit to permeate your daily life."

    OR

    2. You can trust in Him and allow His Spirit to permeate your daily life for a moment.
    BUT... in this moment you are unable to do some good for the sake of doing good.

    Figure out the priority, and you'll figure out if you care whether or not someone is going to hinge an issue on such a thing.

    "But, they're the same thing! If I do one, I'm automatically doing the other!"
    -if this is your response, then no issue can ever "hinge on" determining which carries more weight
    -if this is truly your response, then you don't have an issue with atheism, either


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 129 by Phat, posted 12-19-2017 6:42 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

        
    Prev1
    ...
    45678
    9
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.0 Beta
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018