Re: Opinion Piece: White Christianity is its Own Biggest ThreatN ot
There was no such thing as a Christian while Jesus was alive, so how could he ever have said that Christians need only love each other?
Percy you are so supremely ignorant of Christian theology I don't know where you get your nerve to make such comments.
Jesus was addressing his disciples in the upper room after the Passover meal, when he told them they were to love one another as He had loved them...and His love for them was about to be shown in His death on the cross. It is very clear that He is addressing His own followers who were later dubbed Christians. Here is one commentator on that incident:
More to the point, Jesus said, "Love thy neighbor as thyself." It's a version of the golden rule.
Yes that is biblical too, it is a condensation of the second tablet of the Ten Commandments as a matter of fact, which God gave to the Israelites through Moses, in which He commands not to steal or commit adultery, bear false witness, commit murder or covet your neighbor's wife. THAT is how the Bible defines loving your neighbor. In this case we are to love others with the same concern for their well being that we have for ourselves. It's love, yes, but the love Jesus expressed in the upper room to "love one another" had His love for them as the model not their love for themselves.
But you define love in a totally perverted way, as if we were to do whatever anyone thinks they want without regard to whether it is good for them or society or anything. That is totally unbiblical. Gay marriage is what gays think they want but it's destructive to them and to society in general. That is not love.
As for loving Muslim refugees, there are lots of Christians who have gone to help them in their refugee camps, with all kinds of food and necessities and things to improve their situation, including taking them the gospel of course. In some cases they have to protect some of them from others who are violent, rapists and whatnot. They have potential murderers among them simply because they follow the teachings of Mohammed who was a murderer and advocated murder. Would you call it love to bring dangerous people into your own town? No, I suppose you just deny the truth of this and that allows you to excoriate me and anyone else who appreciates the reality of the danger.
Jesus came to forgive sin by paying our debt to God's Law, He did not come to teach us to violate God's Law which is what sin is and why He had to die for us. It would be extreme ingratitude to intentionally trash God's ordinance of marriage.
As Christian Bible Reference says, "We commonly think of neighbors as the people who live near us, but Jesus meant it to include all mankind - even our enemies!"
Of course but see above, it isn't what you think love is.
Supposedly I "hate" liberal Christianity and Jesuits too, simply because I strongly object to their theology. A liberal Christian twists the scripture much as you do to make it mean something it doesn't mean. Scripture says no women elders or pastors, for instance, while many liberal churches have women pastors. Scripture defines homosexual sex as a sin, but many liberal churches not only deny that, accepting cohabiting gays as members, but also have gay pastors; scripture defines marriage as a God-ordained unbreakable bond between a man and a woman, but many liberal churches have no problem with divorce or gay marriage etc. They also often accept abortion, though it is obviously the murder of the unborn child.
The Jesuits teach many anti-Christian things, also some pretty politically subversive things. That's why I object to their point of view, which you reduce to "hating" them in typical meaningless PC style. I have lots of references on one of my blogs but I'd have to take quite a bit of time extracting quotes to make my point.
For all these things you call me a hater and worse. I certainly don't claim not to be a sinner, quite the opposite, but I do claim to understand the theology I've laid out above as biblical, for which you are treating me like the worst sinner who ever lived. If I am, it certainly isn't for those views,k which represent traditional Christianity to the best of my understanding. It is Christianity itself you are denouncing out of your ignorance.
quote:
[people are] so supremely ignorant of Christian theology I don't know where you [or they] get your [or their]nerve to make such comments.
Jesus was addressing his disciples in the upper room after the Passover meal, when he told them they were to love one another as He had loved them...and His love for them was about to be shown in His death on the cross. It is very clear that He is addressing His own followers who were later dubbed Christians.
According to the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew (which even the Roman Catholic Jerome admitted was the original), he said his sacrifice replaced all meat eating, and in fact it was a grave sin to eat meat.
Remember to distinguish between the "Christianity" then and the Christianity now.
I doubt that even Jerome would recognize what so called "Christianity" is today.
And that man lived 100 years into the Christian Roman Empire.
And the religion was undisputedly "Jewish" during the time of Jesus (all the way to his death).
( modern so-called "fundamentalist" Christians should wash their blasphemous mouth out with soap if they dare to describe the Apostles of Jesus as having any religion that is in any way, shape, or form like what passes for "Christianity" today)
Even the 4th-5th century Christian scholar Jerome would disown those who TODAY claim to follow the Bible he wrote (Protestants, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, etc.).
(Amazing that of all the totally destroyed early Christian documents, the NOW absent documents also include the original Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, so who the heck has the right to call today's "Christianity" authentic?)
Since the question of why health-related miracles always involve regaining health and not regaining limbs, I thought it interesting that the question popped up in an interview of Cardinal Joseph Tobin of Newark: Cardinal Tobin, Am I a Christian?. Here's the question and answer about missing limbs:
quote:Can I ask about prayer? I accept that prayer has spiritual, healing value, but why is it that God answers prayers only in ambiguous situations, such as curing cancer, but never to, say, regrow a leg?
It’s interesting you mention that, Nicholas. My dad grew up strong and big, played football for Boston College, went into the service and lost his leg in World War II.
One night he was looking at his prosthesis. He said: I was thinking I’ve had that thing half my life now. But if I didn’t have that, I wouldn’t have your mother, and I wouldn’t have you. So he discovered something in that tragedy. Faith got him through it.
Sometimes I think when I don’t receive an answer to what I’m praying for, maybe what I’m asking for actually is something that could be harmful for me. I do believe God hears all prayers, and I believe God answers in some way.
Pardon me, Cardinal Tobin, but that is a major avoidance of the question. One more time: Why are prayers answered by ambiguous recoveries from illness where no one can know what truly happened, but never recovery of a limb? Surely it isn't possible that every person missing a limb would suffer some form of harm were it recovered, as you suggest. Does God have some weird plan where he divides people into categories where the best for some people is cancer followed by death, the best for others is cancer followed by recovery, and the best for others is loss of a limb followed by no recovery ever? And why are more people's faith served by loss of limbs during times of war than of peace?
You can just repeat the old canard, "God works in mysterious ways," which is just an admission that though you can speak many words you have no answers, or you can admit the obvious: when it comes to God, at least your God, the Christian God, there ain't nothing there. One thing I can say about my God: I've never made a single claim for him, other than that he exists and gives purpose to the universe, that can't be verified - that is to say, I don't write bad checks.
Since the question of why health-related miracles always involve regaining health and not regaining limbs
Just so it's on the table, the reason limbs never grow back is because miracles don't happen, prayers don't work and if there is a god, he's not the interventionist kind.
Maybe it's just too obvious.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
Re: Samantha Bee Asks Why Evangelicals Support Trump
Faith writes:
Doesn't it ever bother you that EvC is such a biased partisan mouthpiece?
The reality is that we can both express our opinions at EvC.
Your motto is "understanding through discussion" but anything but the leftist and antichristian party line is not given any voice here.
You and New Cat's Eye and any and all other Christians can post here as much as you like.
It's not just Creationist views that are treated unfairly, the whole of "Christianity" here is all liberal Christianity.
How is it unfair that people who disagree with you tell you so?
This guy Bernard is President of a branch of the World Council of Churches which is a screamingly leftist organization. with a tenuous connection to anything truly Christian. Whatever he says about Trump is going to be all formulaic Leftism.
I can't keep track of everything and everybody you hate, but Bernard is an evangelical, a born again Christian. That's why he sat on Trump's *Evangelical* Advisory Board. He's head of the Christian Cultural Center, a megachurch located in Brooklyn. The World Council of Churches that you mention is not a church and doesn't have branches - it's an organization that has members and describes itself like this:
quote:The World Council of Churches is a fellowship of churches which confess the Lord Jesus Christ as God and Savior according to the scriptures, and therefore seek to fulfill together their common calling to the glory of the one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
What's not to like about that?
I never heard of Samantha Bee before but she's obviously just another typical anti-Trumper.
Samantha Bee is just another late night host, like Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, Trever Noah, etc. They all make fun of Trump because that's where the comedy is. You don't even have to make anything up, it writes itself.
You accept those views but not the views of traditional Christianity,...
Concerning Bernard's views, I accept his views on Trump, but he *is* a traditional evangelical Christian, you know, born again, the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, all that stuff, and I don't accept those views at all.
...which you denounce in the most violently excoriating terms, personal terms too since one would think from your vicious slams against me that I was the only one on the planet to have such views.
Bernard is an evangelical like yourself. He believes the same things you do. Here's his Statement of Faith, it's on this page if you scroll down a bit:
quote:We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated on the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy universal and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Sounds like pretty much the same stuff you believe. What's not to like?
It's really interesting to get out of this suffocating environment and check out the conservative sites in the real world, where Trump is actually appreciated.
This is a discussion about faith, not Trump. Are you saying that people of faith have to be conservative and like Trump?
In the leftist headlines that are the first thing that hits an internet surfer from every angle, they are trying to impeach him, everything he does is a horrific gaffe or error to be lambasted, but in the real world he's mostly doing good things and being appreciated.
Again, this thread's about faith, not Trump, but to most of the world, including a majority in the United States, the man is an embarrassment, not to mention a host of other adjectives that since this thread isn't about Trump shall go unmentioned.
Leftist censorship rules what gets seen by the public and apparently you swallow it all along with the rest of the lefties.
Again, this thread is about faith. Can people of faith not be liberal?
And somehow it's allowed you to justify amazingly foul personal attacks on me for one, which you deny with the most amazing kinds of rationalization and appalling self-righteousness.
I suggest you try saying something nice about somebody or something. You'll find that people are much more supportive of expressions of love and support rather than hate and negativity.
There are many true Christian sources out there but it seems you like the false ones like Bernard,...
Again, he's an evangelical who believes the same things you do.
...but a quick perusal of the conservative news media is enough to show the completely other world on the other side of the great political divide that is being suppressed by the Left. Drudge, Front Page Magazine, Breitbart, Infowars, Newsmax, World Net Daily, and many more.
I just checked. The websites for Drudge, Front Page Magazine, Breitbart, Infowars, Newsmax and World Net Daily are still up and active right now at this very minute. They are not being suppressed.
You know, I think you were able to get through an entire post without saying a single true thing. Congratulations!
Re: Opinion Piece: White Christianity is its Own Biggest ThreatN ot
Faith writes:
There was no such thing as a Christian while Jesus was alive, so how could he ever have said that Christians need only love each other?
Percy you are so supremely ignorant of Christian theology I don't know where you get your nerve to make such comments.
And yet despite my ignorance what I said was precisely true. Jesus never expressed any interest in creating a new religion. That was Paul's idea.
They have potential murderers among them simply because they follow the teachings of Mohammed who was a murderer and advocated murder.
Ah, the love is just coming through again.
Would you call it love to bring dangerous people into your own town? No, I suppose you just deny the truth of this and that allows you to excoriate me and anyone else who appreciates the reality of the danger.
Immigrants are vetted, people are basically the same the world over regardless of race, creed, color, etc., you hate them anyway if they're not just like you.
Of course but see above, it isn't what you think love is.
Oh, this must be one of those Big Brother things, I'll add it to the list:
War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is Strength Love is Hate
A liberal Christian twists the scripture much as you do to make it mean something it doesn't mean.
You evangelicals pick and choose which parts of scripture you accept as much as any other churches, for instance, you're not stoning anyone anymore.
Re: Opinion Piece: White Christianity is its Own Biggest ThreatN ot
Percy writes:
Faith writes:
Percy writes:
There was no such thing as a Christian while Jesus was alive, so how could he ever have said that Christians need only love each other?
Percy you are so supremely ignorant of Christian theology I don't know where you get your nerve to make such comments.
And yet despite my ignorance what I said was precisely true. Jesus never expressed any interest in creating a new religion. That was Paul's idea.
Sigh. You are so confused but nevertheless think you know it all. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies of a Savior to the world, which is not a new religion but the whole point of the Old Testament, and His Great Commission in which He told them to take it to all the world certainly shows His intent that it reach everybody. His followers were to take the gospel of the fulfilled promise of His messiahship to the whole world. That is what eventually got called "Christianity," referring to the followers of Jesus Christ this promised Messiah. Jesus Himself chose Paul to carry the gospel to the Gentiles. Any idea that Paul invented any of it contradicts scripture. He was appointed by Christ Himself and identifies himself that way.
They have potential murderers among them simply because they follow the teachings of Mohammed who was a murderer and advocated murder.
Ah, the love is just coming through again.
This has to be willful ignorance on your part. There is certainly enough information out there to show you the truth about all this but you persist in vilifying the messengers of the truth.
Would you call it love to bring dangerous people into your own town? No, I suppose you just deny the truth of this and that allows you to excoriate me and anyone else who appreciates the reality of the danger.
Immigrants are vetted, people are basically the same the world over regardless of race, creed, color, etc., you hate them anyway if they're not just like you.
This is bizarre. First the point is that the vetting hasn't been what it should be, Obama brought in many without bothering to do much vetting. But the main problem here is this weasel talk that pretends there are no different ideas in the world that have different consequences in the world. PEOPLE are not the point. PEOPLE are all the same, but what they have been taught conditions many different kinds of cultures and attitudes, ISLAM teaches killing infidels, Why don't you know this? Read Jihad Watch. Watch Brigitte Gabriel and Bill Warner on You Tube, read the book "Philistine." There is no excuse for your ignorance that heaps opproprium on the people who know the truth.
Of course but see above, it isn't what you think love is. Oh, this must be one of those Big Brother things, I'll add it to the list:
War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is Strength Love is Hate
No, love is obeying the commandments. How did you miss that?
A liberal Christian twists the scripture much as you do to make it mean something it doesn't mean.
You evangelicals pick and choose which parts of scripture you accept as much as any other churches, for instance, you're not stoning anyone anymore.
That is in fact simply not true. It is SO tiresome to have to keep explaining to arrogant self-righteous unbelievers that we are not a theocracy like Israel and Christians don't punish anyone, governments do that.
But you missed the point anyway, which is that liberals don't just pick and choose, they actively contradict the scripture, do exactly what it says not to do. As I explained clearly enough.
Re: Samantha Bee Asks Why Evangelicals Support Trump
The reality is that we can both express our opinions at EvC.
The point, which I'm sure you know but have an interest in denying, is that ideas that contradict the EvC leftist evolutionist party lines come from single voices of people who get trashed by the party liners, who pile on us and defend each other against us but I can't remember the last time anyone ever defended me against the kind of trashing you've been doing of me. That's not exactly freedom of opinion except in the most irrelevant way.
I can't keep track of everything and everybody you hate, but Bernard is an evangelical, a born again Christian.
Bernard's wife is called a pastor, which is a strong clue to basic liberal theology. Any affiliation with the World Council of Churches is enough to show he's not one of us however. The statement of such a creed or the claim to be born again can be just a smokescreen behind which all kinds of false doctrines and political activism can lurk, of which we have quite a few hints already. I haven't figured out how it is possible but it seems that there are "Christians" who affirm such basic principles and yet manage to be enemies of Christianity, something I've been finding out at EvC. I haven't had the stomach to listen to any of his sermons yet but I suspect they'll be a rich source of evidence if I can ever stand to do it.
This is a discussion about faith, not Trump. Are you saying that people of faith have to be conservative and like Trump?
Since liberal theology denies the clear commands of scripture, I do tend to believe you have to be a conservative to be a Christian though it depends on how much disobedience God is willing to overlook for people who claim to believe the main doctrines of the faith and yet hold to other false doctrines, and I can't judge that in many cases. However, my impression is that Trump is too new a Christian to realize he's surrounded himself with some bad Christian leaders, most of the Prosperity Gospel heresies, so no, Trump is not the standard. I wish more orthodox Christians would take him under their wing.
Again, this thread's about faith, not Trump, but to most of the world, including a majority in the United States, the man is an embarrassment, not to mention a host of other adjectives that since this thread isn't about Trump shall go unmentioned.
You have simply succumbed to the leftist media censorship.
Again, this thread is about faith. Can people of faith not be liberal?
Depends on how far they go into disobeying scripture and following worldly leftist politics.
I say lots of nice things about the people I agree with Percy, we just happen to be discussing people who hold false doctrine. I can say lots of nice things about Brigitte Gabriel and Bill Warner and David Horowitz and Steve Bannon and Franklin Graham and Robert Spencer and so on and so forth.
I just checked. The websites for Drudge, Front Page Magazine, Breitbart, Infowars, Newsmax and World Net Daily are still up and active right now at this very minute. They are not being suppressed.
Sure they are. Few of them show up in Google searches for political topics except way down the list (and that's very rare too), or on Yahoo's front page or any of the other headline pages the internet surfer encounters on first entry. You have to specifically search for them. If I didn't have them on my favorites list it is possible I'd never ever see any of them.
dRe: Opinion Piece: White Christianity is its Own Biggest ThreatN ot
Faith writes:
Sigh. You are so confused but nevertheless think you know it all.
I think you are the one who's confused. You seem to think your religious beliefs are facts.
They have potential murderers among them simply because they follow the teachings of Mohammed who was a murderer and advocated murder.
Ah, the love is just coming through again.
This has to be willful ignorance on your part. There is certainly enough information out there to show you the truth about all this but you persist in vilifying the messengers of the truth.
There's murder in the Bible, too. So there you have them, two books like peas in a pod, yet one you believe is love and the other hate. The only true difference between them relevant to your opinions is that one is your book and the other isn't. Had you been raised in Iran you'd be as fervent about the Koran as you are about the Bible.
Would you call it love to bring dangerous people into your own town? No, I suppose you just deny the truth of this and that allows you to excoriate me and anyone else who appreciates the reality of the danger.
Immigrants are vetted, people are basically the same the world over regardless of race, creed, color, etc., you hate them anyway if they're not just like you.
This is bizarre. First the point is that the vetting hasn't been what it should be, Obama brought in many without bothering to do much vetting.
quote:"What people don't know is that Obama got tremendous numbers of people out of the country."
ISLAM teaches killing infidels, Why don't you know this?
Islam does not teach killing infidels. Don't be so gullible.
No, love is obeying the commandments. How did you miss that?
How'd you think this one up? This doesn't even make sense. For example, Jesus said, "Love thy neighbor as thyself." And you're saying that by love he meant something like, "Obey the commandments relative to your neighbor as thyself." How does this work exactly? For instance, what does "Honor thy father and thy mother" have to do with loving your neighbor? How about graven images? Is that like don't put your graven images in your neighbor's garage?
Looks like just more nonsense from you.
But you missed the point anyway, which is that liberals don't just pick and choose, they actively contradict the scripture, do exactly what it says not to do. As I explained clearly enough.
Who's to say which is worse, doing what the scriptures say not to do, or not doing what the scriptures say to do. You're still just making it up.
Faith, you can believe whatever you want, but you keep falling into the trap of thinking that just because you think your interpretation of the Bible is true that everyone else has to think so, too. They're just your religious beliefs that you accept on faith.
Re: Samantha Bee Asks Why Evangelicals Support Trump
Faith writes:
The reality is that we can both express our opinions at EvC.
The point, which I'm sure you know but have an interest in denying, is that ideas that contradict the EvC leftist evolutionist party lines come from single voices of people who get trashed by the party liners, who pile on us and defend each other against us but I can't remember the last time anyone ever defended me against the kind of trashing you've been doing of me. That's not exactly freedom of opinion except in the most irrelevant way.
You already have freedom of opinion. What you apparently want is freedom from criticism. Good luck with that.
Bernard's wife is called a pastor, which is a strong clue to basic liberal theology. Any affiliation with the World Council of Churches is enough to show he's not one of us however. The statement of such a creed or the claim to be born again can be just a smokescreen behind which all kinds of false doctrines and political activism can lurk, of which we have quite a few hints already. I haven't figured out how it is possible but it seems that there are "Christians" who affirm such basic principles and yet manage to be enemies of Christianity, something I've been finding out at EvC. I haven't had the stomach to listen to any of his sermons yet but I suspect they'll be a rich source of evidence if I can ever stand to do it.
You seem to actively seek out things to hate or be suspicious of:
Churches with female pastors.
Churches with a basic liberal theology.
The World Council of Churches.
False claims of born again that make people enemies of Christianity.
Since liberal theology denies the clear commands of scripture, I do tend to believe you have to be a conservative to be a Christian though it depends on how much disobedience God is willing to overlook for people who claim to believe the main doctrines of the faith and yet hold to other false doctrines, and I can't judge that in many cases.
You brought up Trump, and I was speaking politically. Were you saying that people of faith have to be politically conservative and like Trump?
How about just giving people the benefit of the doubt for once and saying, "Fare thee well, fellow Christian traveler."
Again, this thread's about faith, not Trump, but to most of the world, including a majority in the United States, the man is an embarrassment, not to mention a host of other adjectives that since this thread isn't about Trump shall go unmentioned.
You have simply succumbed to the leftist media censorship.
"Mr Trump is so stupid, my God!" Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo.
Divisive, unhelpful and quite simply wrong. Former British prime minister David Cameron on Trump's proposed Muslim travel ban.
He changes opinions like the rest of us change underwear." Danish Foreign Minister Kristian Jensen.
His discourse is so dumb, so basic." Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa.
That’s the way Mussolini arrived and the way Hitler arrived. Mexican President Enrique Pea on Trump's rhetoric.
"Trump is an irrational type." Chinese Finance Minister Lou Jiwei.
"Yes [the election of Donald Trump would be dangerous]. [It] would complicate relations between Europe and the United States." French President Francois Hollande.
"You [Trump] are a disgrace not only to the GOP but to all America. Withdraw from the U.S. presidential race as you will never win." Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Alsaud.
"I can only hope that the election campaign in the USA does not lack the perception of reality." Germany's Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier on Trump's use of the "America first" slogan.
Mr. Trump’s statement only serves to show not only his insensitivity, but also his ignorance about Pakistan. Pakistani Interior Minister Chaudry Nisar Ali Khan after Trump demanded the release of a doctor who helped the CIA hunt down Osama bin Laden in 2011.
For the life of me, I cannot believe that a country like the United States can afford to have someone as president who simply says, ‘These people are not going to be allowed to come to the United States.' " Saudi Prince Turki al-Faisal, a former ambassador to the U.S., on Trump's proposed Muslim ban.
Let's be clear, Donald Trump is an idiot. I have tried to find different, perhaps more parliamentary adjectives to describe him but none was clear enough. He is an idiot." Gavin Newlands, a British MP with the Scottish National Party.
Scary. That’s how we view Trump [...] Could we depend on the United States? We don’t know. I can’t tell you how the unpredictability we are seeing scares us. An unnamed ambassador whose country has a close relationship with Washington.
If he becomes president it would be a catastrophe. He’s an avowed admirer of Vladimir Putin and it would be a disaster for international politics if Trump gets anywhere near the nuclear button." Sren Espersen, a foreign affairs spokesperson for the far right Danish People's Party.
When an apple’s red, it is red. When you say ignorant things, you’re ignorant." Mexico’s top diplomat, Foreign Affairs Secretary Claudia Ruiz Massieu.
"I consider Donald Trump a man who invests a lot in a policy of fear." Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi.
"I think the Donald Trump phenomenon is a real problem for the United States, making their democracy look kind of weird." Christopher Pyne, minister for industry, innovation and science in the Australian government.
"Whether Donald Trump, Marine le Pen or Geert Wilders all these right-wing populists are not only a threat to peace and social cohesion, but also to economic development." Germany's Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel.
"Seriously, have you ever heard me say something like that?" French far right politician Marine Le Pen on Trump's proposal to ban foreign Muslims from entry to the United States.
Given his positions, do we even want to have anything to do with this guy? An unnamed European ambassador.
If he becomes president, it will be a disaster. Former Danish foreign minister Martin Lidegaard.
"[Trump has] no regard for alliances at all." Former Australian ambassador to the U.S. Kim Beazley.
"You listen to him at the debates and what he says is unsettling he is promising to change things from one day to the next. A lot of us thought he couldn’t possibly be the nominee [...] The uncertainty is very, very scary. An unnamed European ambassador.
"Donald Trump's ignorant view of Islam could make both our countries less safe: It risks alienating mainstream Muslims around the world and plays into the hands of the extremists." London Mayor Sadiq Khan.
"Donald Trump's remarks are totally absurd and illogical." Ri Jong Ryul, deputy-director general of the Institute of International Studies in North Korea, after Trump suggested that Japan and South Korea arm themselves with nuclear weapons.
"He is very good at making speeches, but as a politician and a world leader? No, I don’t think that’s a very good idea. Jimmie Akesson, leader of the far right Sweden Democrats.
Some of the claims made during the campaign have been empty or just wrong." Peter Westmacott, former British ambassador to the United States.
A person who thinks only about building walls wherever they may be and not building bridges, is not Christian." Pope Francis.
The orange prince of American self-publicity. Marcus Fysh, British MP with the Conservative Party.
If Trump beats Hillary, that means that the scenario of the clash of civilizations created by Samuel will come to light at the hands of the candidate and [Islamic State leader] al-Baghdadi. Lt. Gen. Dahi Khalfan bin Tamim, head of general security for the Emirate of Dubai.
"So Donald Trump is ambitious but not exactly a very well-informed man, I don't want to say ignorant, but he is not very well informed." Former Mexican president Felipe Calderon
"The comments made are unacceptable. Irish Taoiseach Enda Kenny on Trump's Muslim travel ban.
"If he met one or two of my constituents in one of the many excellent pubs in my constituency, they may well tell him he is a wazzock." Victoria Atkins, British MP with the Conservative Party.
In the past when candidates said extreme things, there always has been some seasoned, experienced adviser you could talk to, or who would speak out to soften what was said. This is not the case with Trump. Unnamed ambassador from South America.
"The person you are dealing with may be a successful businessman, but he's also a buffoon." Gavin Robinson, a British MP from Northern Ireland who represents the Democratic Unionist Party.
Trump’s remarks do not show a sense of introspection on what their results would bring about; he does not know the gravity of what he says. South Korea's vice foreign minister Choi Young-jin.
"[A Trump presidency would be] a disaster for E.U.-U.S. ties." An unnamed senior E.U. official.
"If Donald Trump was to end up as president of the United States, I think we better head for the bunkers." Carl Bildt, former foreign minister of Sweden.
[The anti-Islam rhetoric of] Donald Trump and others in Europe are really the shame of our civilization. Albanian Prime Minister Edi Rama.
A successful politician would not make such statement, as there are millions of Muslims living in the U.S. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Trump's proposed ban on Muslim arrivals.
The opportunism, unreliability and amorality that we have seen during the [Trump] campaign would be damaging for the world in general and hurt Europe in particular." Ana Palacio, former Spanish foreign minister.
"Trump, like others, stokes hatred and conflations." Manuel Valls, prime minister of France, on the proposed Muslim travel ban.
"This nation [the U.S.] is going to fail if it goes into the hands of a crazy guy." Former Mexican president Vicente Fox.
We had such appreciation for your system when Barack Hussein Obama was elected [...] Hussein was his middle name. Hussein! He was black. We so admired that America could do something like that. Now you have a candidates who doesn’t want Muslims. An unnamed ambassador from the Middle East.
"Vulture." Gerard Araud, French ambassador to the U.S., in response to a Donald Trump tweet about gun control in France (Araud later deleted this tweet).
Trump solutions for me are false solutions, but they’re not original. They’re things that we have heard in Europe from extremist sections, Sandro Gozi, undersecretary for European affairs in the Italian government.
"It's not a man I would vote for, I can tell you that [...] I hope that the American people, and I think they will, choose someone else who is better equipped for this task." Swedish Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist.
"Prime Minister Netanyahu rejects Donald Trump’s recent remarks about Muslims." A statement from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu after Trump's proposed Muslim travel ban.
Saying the U.S. will no longer engage in anything that is a burden in terms of its relationships with allies, it would be almost like abandoning those alliances [...] It will inevitably give rise to anti-American sentiment worldwide. Former South Korean vice foreign minister Kim Sung-han.
A lot of what Donald Trump says makes for a more unstable world." Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg.
"I think Donald Trump's views are just barking mad on some issues." Australian opposition leader Bill Shorten.
"Trump's statements are shocking and disgusting." Isaac Herzog, Israeli opposition leader, on Trump's proposed Muslim travel ban.
"The only reason I wouldn't visit some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump." Former London mayor and British Foreign Minister MP Boris Johnson.
"We see it as the dramatics of a popular actor." North Korea's ambassador to Britain, Hyon Hak Bong, on Trump's offer to open nuclear talks with Pyongyang.
Trump reflects "the ultraconservative, racist, and war-like thinking that is incubated in the roots of the empire." Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega.
A lot of people in Mexico and Latin America are worried about this. It’s not just the substance of what Trump says, but it’s the style. It’s a familiar and worrisome style to us." Former Mexican foreign minister Jorge Castaneda.
He has a backwards world view. ... In sum, not just for Brazil but for the whole world — the election of Trump would be a disaster. Former president of Brazil Fernando Henrique Cardoso.
He would make an important contribution to anti-American sentiment around the world. Unnamed Latin American diplomat.
He is not predictable and this unpredictability is a danger. And therefore it is not in the common interest, nor in the interest of the west, that we have President Donald Trump. Elmar Brok, German MEP and chair of the European parliament’s foreign affairs committee.
The rhetoric adopted by US presidential candidate Donald Trump vis-a-vis Islam and Muslims is unacceptable and greatly offensive." Former Egyptian foreign minister Nabil Fahmy.
"The fact is, Cape Breton is lovely all times of the year and if people do want to make choices that perhaps suit their lifestyles better, Canada is always welcoming and opening." Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau when asked a question about the potential that Americans could leave the country if Trump is elected.
Obviously there's no censorship. The news about Trump's embarrassing behavior is amply available. But I'll stop there, this thread isn't about Trump, it's about faith.
Again, this thread is about faith. Can people of faith not be liberal?
Depends on how far they go into disobeying scripture and following worldly leftist politics.
Actually, this time you make sense. Conservative politics and the evangelical agenda do align on some key issues, like LGBT rights and so forth.
I say lots of nice things about the people I agree with Percy, we just happen to be discussing people who hold false doctrine.
Didn't Jesus say something about loving your enemies? Matthew 5:44?
I can say lots of nice things about Brigitte Gabriel and Bill Warner and David Horowitz and Steve Bannon and Franklin Graham and Robert Spencer and so on and so forth.
I just checked. The websites for Drudge, Front Page Magazine, Breitbart, Infowars, Newsmax and World Net Daily are still up and active right now at this very minute. They are not being suppressed.
Sure they are. Few of them show up in Google searches for political topics except way down the list (and that's very rare too), or on Yahoo's front page or any of the other headline pages the internet surfer encounters on first entry. You have to specifically search for them. If I didn't have them on my favorites list it is possible I'd never ever see any of them.
Couldn't prove it by me. Local businessman here in New England Robert Kraft just committed to building a factory in North Carolina, and when I searched for this at Google News Breitbart was the top item, Boston Globe was second. Try the search yourself.
You can set Google News to give priority to the news sources you like. Open the Google News page, click on the Settings icon near the right top (it looks like a gear), then select "Sources". Follow the instructions.
And another strenuous effort to get the truth across bites the dust, alas.
Actually what bites the dust is any chance of continuing discussion on those subtopics. Once again you bring discussion to an end. You're nothing if not consistent.
It doesn't change the fact that your religious beliefs are not facts, that there's murder in the Bible, too, that you were wrong about immigration policy under Obama, that Islam does not teach killing infidels, that love is not "obeying the commandments", and that conservative Christians follow the Bible no better or worse than liberal Christians.
You have a lot of very specific religious beliefs. You accept those beliefs on faith. Others are under no obligation to believe the same things you do, and they certainly do not deserve ill treatment when they don't.
Actually what bites the dust is any chance of continuing discussion on those subtopics. Once again you bring discussion to an end. You're nothing if not consistent.
I meant temporarily, "for now," sorry I wasn't clear, but as usual it's hard to have such a frustrating conversation when nothing I say is acceptable and your views are from some other planet from my point of view. But nevertheless I DID mean only "for now." I thought for longer than this though.
It doesn't change the fact that your religious beliefs are not facts,
Only to you, to me they are, and I don't think your opinion gets to trump mine in this situation.
that there's murder in the Bible, too,
Which is always presented as historical fact, not something addressed to the reader to be carried out, as the Koran does, which has been explained a million times at EvC, but I guess you just refuse to believe it.
that you were wrong about immigration policy under Obama,
If so I'll apologize but I'll have to find out first.
that Islam does not teach killing infidels,
As I said, how you could possibly think this is hard to explain, considering all the information out there about how it does. It must be some kind of self-induced blindness.
that love is not "obeying the commandments",
Did you miss where I said it is a condensation of the second tablet of the Ten Commandments, which Jesus himself explained in Matthew 22:39
Jesus is condensing the Ten Commandments as a whole down to two:
Matt 22:37-38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. [
That's the first tablet of the Ten Commandments. And here's the second:
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
In other words the second half of the Ten Commandments He boils down to loving your neighbor as yourself, those commandments that are against such things as lying, stealing, murdering, coveting, adultery and so on?
I explained that in Message 1411. That really is how "love your neighbor" is first presented in the Bible, as obeying that set of commandments, and I wanted to make a point of it because it is not anything like what you and others take it to mean. Jesus also illustrates it of course with the story of the good Samaritan, which broadens it, and I can assure you that if I found a Muslim refugee or a gay person beaten up and lying at the side of the road I would do my utmost to be sure he/she was taken to a hospital and treated for his injuries.
and that conservative Christians follow the Bible no better or worse than liberal Christians.
I don't think I said anything about how WELL any of us follows it but it's certainly true that because conservastive Christians are the ones who believe in Bible inerrancy, we do intend to follow exactly what it says. While it's almost the definition of a "liberal Christian" that they often disobey it, as I explained back there somewhere (Message 1411): Women elders and pastors, abortion, divorce, gay pastors, gay marriage etc.
You have a lot of very specific religious beliefs.
Yes I do.
You accept those beliefs on faith.
Knowing your odd ideas about faith I hesitate to agree but I'll leave it for now.
Others are under no obligation to believe the same things you do,
Of course, but they are under an obligation in a debate to recognize that I believe it, but I find you imposing your view of it on me instead, insisting aggressively that "[my] beliefs are not facts."
and they certainly do not deserve ill treatment when they don't.
If that truly describes anything I've done, I'm truly sorry.
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