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Author Topic:   The Tension of Faith
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1425 of 1540 (826133)
12-22-2017 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1422 by Percy
12-22-2017 3:54 PM


Re: Samantha Bee Asks Why Evangelicals Support Trump
Didn't Jesus say something about loving your enemies? Matthew 5:44?
Yes, our PERSONAL enemies, and loving anyone never means treating their wrong doctrine as true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1422 by Percy, posted 12-22-2017 3:54 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1433 by Percy, posted 12-23-2017 3:58 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1427 of 1540 (826144)
12-23-2017 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1426 by PaulK
12-23-2017 2:31 AM


Re: Oh well
My beliefs are completely standard and typical and your accusations are off the wall. And my point was that you don't get just to announce YOUR view against mine as if yours is the truth if this is really a debate or a discussion.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1426 by PaulK, posted 12-23-2017 2:31 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1428 by PaulK, posted 12-23-2017 6:59 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1429 of 1540 (826146)
12-23-2017 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1428 by PaulK
12-23-2017 6:59 AM


Re: Oh well
I don't twist anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1428 by PaulK, posted 12-23-2017 6:59 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1430 by PaulK, posted 12-23-2017 7:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1432 of 1540 (826170)
12-23-2017 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1431 by Percy
12-23-2017 2:54 PM


Re: Oh well
...
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1431 by Percy, posted 12-23-2017 2:54 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1435 of 1540 (826186)
12-24-2017 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1433 by Percy
12-23-2017 3:58 PM


Re: Samantha Bee Asks Why Evangelicals Support Trump
It's very clear from the context of what you quoted from Matthew that it's talking about personal enemies.
And why is someone you believe has a "wrong doctrine" your enemy? Maybe that's your whole problem, you see people who disagree with you or who hold different views as your enemy.
You misread that.
As for your other post there's no point in explaining again to deaf ears how you are totally ignorant of the meaning of the Bible since all you do is repeat your ignorant views even more aggressively with even more aggressive character assassination to back them up. (You seem to have discovered the value of intimidating people in a debate as promoted by the Left, such as I spelled out in the thread about Leftist Totalitarian tactics, (Message 1), which David Horowitz said in the video I posted there is an aping of moralistic fire and brimstone "Christian" preaching aimed at destroying character. It's quite a piece of self-deception you've pulled off in persuading yourself that you are just being descriptive and not violating the rule against personal attacks.)
Oh, and somewhere back there you said I was the one who brought up Trump. Well, I wasn't. You brought him up under the very title of this post.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1433 by Percy, posted 12-23-2017 3:58 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1436 by Percy, posted 12-25-2017 8:04 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1437 of 1540 (826205)
12-25-2017 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1436 by Percy
12-25-2017 8:04 AM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Matthew 23 should show that Jesus was far from preaching the kind of love you have in mind.
Matt 23:33-35 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
The prophets were men sent by God to convict the people of sin. Instead of heeding them the Jewish leaders killed them. Among other things gay marriage is sin, abortion is sin, and the job of the prophetic voice is to make such things clear, and call the nation as well as individual sinners to repentance. Loving the sinner does not mean justifying or accommodating to the sin, it means calling sinners to repentance and salvation. You're on the wrong side of this but oh how you hate those on the right side of it.
I hate what God hates and love what He loves. When someone is so committed to putting evil for good and good for evil as you are, and actually condemns the truthtellers it's best to end the discussion. My problem is that it's hard to end any discussion but I'll try very hard this time..
ABE: About Trump. I don't condemn PEOPLE as you do, as the Left does. I don't condemn gays or anybody else and I don't condemn sinners in the White House. While it would be nice to have a squeaky clean President we haven't had one for a long time and unless they are actually criminal, which Clinton may have been, what matters is their policies. Evangelicals HATE the Left's totalitarian policies. Trump is for true freedom. We're for what he is for. Whether he can pull it off is a completely other question.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1436 by Percy, posted 12-25-2017 8:04 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1440 by Percy, posted 12-26-2017 9:56 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1438 of 1540 (826206)
12-25-2017 12:56 PM


One last thing:
WAKE UP, PHAT, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, WAKE UP!
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1439 by Phat, posted 12-26-2017 9:36 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1441 of 1540 (826231)
12-26-2017 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1440 by Percy
12-26-2017 9:56 AM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
ABE: Answer to title: Yes the Christian Faith means loving everyone, but loving everyone doesn't mean encouraging sin or violations of God's Law, and it doesn't mean supporting secular laws that do that either. It also doesn't mean making nicey- nice with people who say idiotic or blasphemous things about true Christianity. /abe
My God IS the Judge of all the Earth. He's the Creator God who created the whole earth and everything in it and all human b eings and all the rest of the universe. He owns it all.
My views of sin are derived from His Word, which He gave to the whole human race to save us from our natural ignrance.
God IS Love and Love can't coexist with sin; that's the reason for God's judgments against sin. He's longsuffering with us, giving us plenty of time to repent, but eventually He will come to judge the whole Earth. That is what His Word says. You really ought to pay attention. There's still time to repent and be saved.
True freedom, speaking of Trump, does not save criminals from punishment. Sheesh.
OK, now THAT should be all I say on this subject. I've spent the last thirty years learning about Christian theology only to get treated like I made it all up by absolute know-nothing unbelievers like you.
Anyway I have to go hear a book reading program on Pilgrim Radio anyway. You can listen too, just go to Pilgrim Radio dot com. 2017 has been the 500th Anniversary of the Protestant Reformation and the book being read is a biography of Luther. It's been really interesting so far..
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1440 by Percy, posted 12-26-2017 9:56 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1442 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 12:15 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1443 of 1540 (826251)
12-27-2017 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by Phat
11-21-2017 7:53 AM


Re: Tension from Faith
In my opinion, your weakness is that you never entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to your own.
Came across this again and want to answer it again. A Christian who has spent years studying the faith, the Bible, theology, does not have to entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to the established traditional faith. What a bizarre idea Phat. What a worldly capitulation. Biblcial Christianity is not a mere academic subject that should be batted about in the world's forums, it's God's own revelation and it has authority over everything else. If I hold heretical views they need correction, but by the Church, not by unbelievers.
Your critics say that you are part of the cult of Biblical Christianity.
There is no such thing. That's an invention of unbelievers, just an attack on Christianity. Your whole attitude in this post represents your personal capitulation to God's enemies. This is why you need to wake up. You've managed to convince me that you are a Christian in spite of this kind of deviation, but you are so confused and vacillating and prone to accept false doctrine it is very hard to tell. You treat unbelieving opinions as equal to Christian theology,, apparently for the sake of getting along, which is NOT what God wants of us -- we are to be a counter to the world, not give in to it. "Be not conformed to the world..."
We truly live in a culture having a war on ideology.
I have NO idea what you mean by this remark. I could argue the opposite, that the world is dominated by some pretty evil ideologies these days.
I used to think and believe that it was a sign of the last days, as you still probably do.
I think we must be getting very close for a lot of reasons but as far as I can make sense of your remark, a war on ideology isn't one of them.
Now, though still a believer in Jesus Christ, I fear that Biblical Christianity and traditional values are going to lead the world into a self-fulfilling prophecy of chaos...simply because we are taking a stand for authoritarian ideology marketed as The Truth.
What on EARTH are you talking about? If anything the Christian Church has compromised so far with the world these days we have no clout at all. Our values aren't leading anybody anywhere, they've been buried under mountains of worldly compromise along the same lines that you seem to be espousing. You really do need to wake up. You need to learn something about your Christian faith if you really are a Christian.
And that term "marketed" is the sign of an antichristian. Do wake up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by Phat, posted 11-21-2017 7:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1447 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 3:58 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1450 by Phat, posted 12-27-2017 4:38 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1444 of 1540 (826252)
12-27-2017 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1442 by Percy
12-27-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Nice to know about the audiobook thanks. It's a very well written book that brings out the historical context in which Luther lived with a vividness I haven't found in any other account of the Reformation or its leaders.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1442 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 12:15 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1445 of 1540 (826253)
12-27-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1442 by Percy
12-27-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
I know that living a Godly life means loving your fellow man.
What you don't know is what loving your fellow man means in reality. You have the usual mushheaded liberal notions that deny sin, deny the Fall, deny Hell, deny God, etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1442 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 12:15 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1448 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 4:11 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1449 of 1540 (826273)
12-27-2017 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1448 by Percy
12-27-2017 4:11 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
You don't even know what judgmental means. I don't talk about people, I hardly ever judge people moralistically, which is what Horowitz described the Left doing as I mentioned a while back, I'm talking about doctrines, laws, ideas, I'm not talking about gays but about the law that legalizes gay marriage, not about the women who have abortions but the law that legalizes it. THESE THINGS BRING THE NATION DEEPER INTO GOD'S WRATH. I'm not even judging the Muslim refugees, but the political thinking that ignores their dangerous ideology in order to subject Americans to that potential danger. Their ideology is dangerous but they are victims of it, I don't hold them morally responsible for it. Judgmentalness is judging, in fact condemning, people for sin. Your moralistic denunciations of me personally are actually examp;les of that, not anything I've said. I've said nothing about hating anyway, but I do hate hateful ideas, doctrines, laws and ideologies that violate God's law or are dangerous for human beings.
There's a logical failure in your thinking.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1448 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 4:11 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1459 by Percy, posted 12-28-2017 9:55 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1451 of 1540 (826275)
12-27-2017 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1447 by Percy
12-27-2017 3:58 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
I think most people see precisely the opposite. Evangelicals seem unwilling to compromise or be accepting enough of other views to sell wedding cakes to anyone.
We will not disobey God. You can't compromise obedience to God. It's not a matter of different views, it's a matter of obedience to God. Muslims wouldn't make a wedding cake for a gay wedding either, because to them that would be disobeying Allah, and I don't think they even have a law about marriage in their holy books. But nobody challenges them over this of course, because Islam is in favor and Christianity is not and bringing down Christianity is what it's all about.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1447 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 3:58 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1455 by PaulK, posted 12-28-2017 1:55 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1460 by Percy, posted 12-28-2017 10:02 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1452 of 1540 (826276)
12-27-2017 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1450 by Phat
12-27-2017 4:38 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Thank you for acknowledging that you have given up your belief in Bible inerrancy due to the arguments of unbelievers. That's most of what I was objecting to. I'm saying that's giving in to the world and you would do a lot better to listen to Christian teachers.
===================================
ABE: As PaulK points out, I was wrong about this, you are really blaming me and I hadn't read far enough or carefully enough. What you are blaming me for isn't exactly clear, though, my "illogic?" Sounds to me like you're blaming me through the lens of EvCers anyway. And Calvin is illogical? If you spent more time listening to Christian teachers instead of to people here it might look different to you. Whatever, Phat, believe whatever you believe, As I go on to say I don't want to argue any of this.
I still believe what I've argued about the Flood. It needs some work but there's nothing illogical about it. If you think so you've bought the forum perspective. You're wrong. I'm sorry, however, for being a hot head, I shouldn't get so impatient, but that is a reason I should have left here long ago.
/abe
===================================
But I don't really want to argue with you about any of it, I'm mostly just responding to your recent personal attacks on me. i also want to avoid arguing about Calvinism. It's a lost cause in a context like EvC. But you've come to your own conclusions, so believe whatever you believe I don't want to argue with you about it. Just don't come attacking me as you did from your new man-centered theology. I've mostly tried not to get into disagreements with you but you've been coming on rather strong against me lately and eventually I've had to answer you.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1450 by Phat, posted 12-27-2017 4:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1456 by PaulK, posted 12-28-2017 2:15 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1453 of 1540 (826278)
12-27-2017 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1447 by Percy
12-27-2017 3:58 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
The years I've put in ought to spare me the idiotic accusation of making up my theology. That's all I was saying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1447 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 3:58 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1461 by Percy, posted 12-28-2017 10:13 AM Faith has replied

  
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