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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 620 of 2887 (826219)
12-26-2017 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 618 by Dredge
12-26-2017 12:05 AM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
coyote writes:
So, what you're saying is that scientific knowledge which explains things about the natural world is "useless" if it contradicts someone's religious beliefs?
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is, regardless of any religious beliefs, the theory that all ilfe on earth evolved from microbes is useless to science. So since that's what the argument is about, winning it is an irrelevance to the real world. It's like winning the argument that the Tooth Fairy wears a pink dress, and not a green one.
But that is what you're saying! You and many other creationists alike.
You find that science disproves some of your beliefs so rather than just accept that, or change your beliefs, you do your best to denigrate science for having the nerve to disprove your beliefs.
Your attempt to claim that evolution from microbes is useless is just a subset of the overall creationist attack on science.
"Were you there?" is another such attack on science, attempting (falsely) to separate science into two types.
"It's just a theory" is still another such attack on science.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 618 by Dredge, posted 12-26-2017 12:05 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 637 of 2887 (826663)
01-06-2018 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 636 by AlexCaledin
01-06-2018 4:26 AM


Anyway, may the devils make in the depth of the earth such stupid fossil as the stupidest evolutionist can desire to find!
With comments such as that you expose yourself as nothing but a religion-obsessed troll.
I certainly wouldn't mind if you took your trolling elsewhere.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 636 by AlexCaledin, posted 01-06-2018 4:26 AM AlexCaledin has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 668 of 2887 (828327)
02-15-2018 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 667 by Faith
02-15-2018 10:11 PM


Re: Before and after the Fall and the Flood
Certainly the ice age would have been the result of the Flood.
There is no evidence to show that. This is particularly true as the flood never happened. You dates would be all wrong anyway. And besides, there were quite a few "ice ages" spread over huge amounts of time.
Belief is just not good evidence.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 667 by Faith, posted 02-15-2018 10:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 669 by Faith, posted 02-15-2018 10:18 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 688 of 2887 (828387)
02-17-2018 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 687 by Faith
02-16-2018 10:49 PM


Re: The Flood never happened.
The evidence pf the Flood in bazillions of fossils in a miles-deep stack of water-deposited sediments over thousands of square miles is in-your-face evidence. It takes a bizarre level of denial to pretend there isn't any.
The problem with your "evidence" is, and always has been, the dating.
The dating clearly shows when those different layers were deposited. It was far from what you keep claiming.
RAZD has posted several threads outlining both the evidence and the massive agreement among the many different methods of dating.
To counter this all you have is belief and denial. That's pretty thin sauce in the face of the solid evidence for dating.
We realize that your belief has overwhelmed logic, evidence, judgement and the rest. You've heard, I'm sure, that a mind is a terrible thing to waste but you're doing just that by persisting in your fantasy make-believe worldview and ignoring reality.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by Faith, posted 02-16-2018 10:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 693 by Faith, posted 02-17-2018 8:01 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 735 of 2887 (828572)
02-21-2018 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 734 by Faith
02-21-2018 10:55 AM


Re: A Fair Assessment
I have not appealed to the Bible once in this discussion.
But you have said over and over that the bible supersedes any evidence that contradicts it. All of your claims are based on that one idea.
That belief prevents you from accepting any evidence that we present that goes against your a priori beliefs.
So you don't have to appeal to the bible in this thread as you have told us again and again where you are coming from.
That makes it pretty much a waste of time for us to present evidence to you, doesn't it?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 734 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 10:55 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 736 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 11:09 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 741 of 2887 (828578)
02-21-2018 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 736 by Faith
02-21-2018 11:09 AM


Re: A Fair Assessment
That is ridiculous and unfair. I am arguing from the physical evidence and that is what the whole case has to rest on in the end.
You are rejecting the physical evidence that shows your biblical-based beliefs are wrong. You are substituting your own "physical evidence" that is clearly contradicted by reality.
You are telling virtually every geologist and most other 'ologists in the world that they know nothing, and that they should accept your unevidenced assertions.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 736 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 11:09 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 742 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 11:32 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 919 of 2887 (828970)
02-27-2018 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 916 by Tanypteryx
02-27-2018 8:37 PM


Re: A Fair Assessment
So, what do you think about evolution and the fossils?
The fossils are well-ordered, and in the order we would expect from the various methods of dating.
And creationists have yet to produce any evidence that scientific dating is grossly in error.
It is an old earth and that's about all there is to it. No need to argue about silly rocks when elegant and well-ordered fossils and clever and fully-agreed dating techniques settle the issue completely.
Edited by Coyote, : No reason given.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 916 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-27-2018 8:37 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 948 of 2887 (829034)
02-28-2018 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 947 by Faith
02-28-2018 7:07 PM


Re: A Fair Assessment
I'm sorry, you are wrong, the drawing does indeed show evidence that proves the earth is young.
The dating shows its old.
Creationists have never been able to do more than try and hand-wave that evidence away. They have to ignore what they can't disprove.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 947 by Faith, posted 02-28-2018 7:07 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 986 of 2887 (829095)
03-02-2018 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 980 by Faith
03-02-2018 8:36 PM


Re: A few comments
You forgot to say, "Amen!" at the end of your post.
It would be appropriate as you are preaching a religious view that is contract by all the real-world evidence.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 980 by Faith, posted 03-02-2018 8:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1056 of 2887 (829196)
03-04-2018 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1054 by edge
03-04-2018 12:53 PM


Re: Just a few pictures
That's the nature of inquiry. You create a hypothesis and then test it by looking for evidence. That necessarily involves details.
Not with creation "science" and related apologetics.
In those you start with a conclusion and cherry pick any evidence that you can stretch or manipulate to support that conclusion. Anything else you deny and ignore.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1054 by edge, posted 03-04-2018 12:53 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1058 by edge, posted 03-04-2018 1:01 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 1451 of 2887 (830552)
04-02-2018 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1449 by Faith
04-02-2018 4:37 PM


Re: Creationist film "Is Genesis History?"
I'm accusing Old Earth Theory of deception. I don't think people who believe in it are trying to deceive, they are deceived themselves.
You CAN'T allow yourself to accept the various dating methods because they conclusively prove your YEC ideas are wrong.
But again, we have the well-ordered fossils and the dates, as RAZD has shown, so we have the evidence. You have only belief and denial.
Makes it really ironic that you accuse us of self-deception...

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1449 by Faith, posted 04-02-2018 4:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1452 of 2887 (830557)
04-03-2018 12:29 AM


Twenty-One Reasons Noah’s Worldwide Flood Never Happened
LORENCE G. COLLINS
Introduction: Young-Earth creationists claim that the Paleozoic sedimentary rocks in the Grand Canyon and the Mesozoic sedimentary rocks of the Grand Staircase north of the canyon, in which Zion and Bryce Canyon National Parks occur, were deposited during Noah’s worldwide flood about 4,500 years ago (Hill 2002; Hill and Moshier 2009). I realize that readers of Skeptical Inquirer accept modern scientific views on this subject, but this examination of the creationist claims might be useful when communicating with others less imbued with scientific thinking.
More
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Nr38Reasons.pdf

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1484 of 2887 (830658)
04-04-2018 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1480 by Faith
04-04-2018 4:03 PM


Re: Creationist film "Is Genesis History?"
I'm not interested in spending time on radiometric dating because I have sufficient evidence from other sources to make my case.
You should be interested in the dating issue because dating alone completely destroys the YEC belief and claims.
But then creationists have been picking at dating methods for a long time, with absolutely no success, so you're in good company.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1480 by Faith, posted 04-04-2018 4:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1485 by Faith, posted 04-04-2018 4:27 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1488 of 2887 (830666)
04-04-2018 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1485 by Faith
04-04-2018 4:27 PM


Re: Creationist film "Is Genesis History?"
There is no way to confirm the dating methods because there is no way to see into the past.
That is false and you know it. If you could allow yourself to look at the evidence you might actually learn something--but you have shown that that's the last thing you want to do.
As long as the evidence I've collected points consistently to the Biblical framework of time I have no interest in radiometric dating.
The evidence you've collected relies heavily on denial and obfuscation, designed to fool yourself. In that it has succeeded. But your denial does not make the evidence go away.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1485 by Faith, posted 04-04-2018 4:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1507 of 2887 (830709)
04-05-2018 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1505 by Faith
04-05-2018 4:16 PM


Re: Creationist film "Is Genesis History?"
Um, if the geologic column was laid down in a matter of hours or days or weeks at the most, rather than billions of years, you'd have to give up your billions of yers for the age of the earth.
The contrary should also be true. If the geologic column was laid down in a matter of millions to billions of years, you'd have to give up your YEC claims.
But you won't accept any evidence that shows an old earth.
So don't lecture us about evidence.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1505 by Faith, posted 04-05-2018 4:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1513 by Faith, posted 04-05-2018 4:44 PM Coyote has not replied

  
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