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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 496 of 591 (824364)
11-27-2017 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 494 by Phat
11-27-2017 8:19 AM


Re: Food For Thought
Phat writes:
I assumed that belief was a choice....
You can choose to pretend to believe something that you really know to be false. In retrospect, I don't think I was ever a True believer but it was easier to go with the flow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 494 by Phat, posted 11-27-2017 8:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 11-27-2017 4:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 499 of 591 (824417)
11-28-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
11-27-2017 4:19 PM


Re: Food For Thought
Phat writes:
My point is that there is no definite evidence and thus the conclusion is that you decided not to believe. Its not as if you had a solid 100% case for doing so.
You contradict yourself. If there is "no definite evidence" that IS a solid 100% case. If there was ANY definite evidence, it would be less than 100%.
But I'm not even the one who says there's "no definite evidence". I'm just saying there isn't enough evidence to make the case for God, etc. plausible. Bigfoot is more plausible than God but I don't believe he exists. Even leprechauns are more plausible than God.
Phat writes:
Remember that I reject Crashfrogs mantra: The Absence of Evidence is not the Evidence of Absence in my mind.
Your mind is wrong. If the evidence should be there but isn't, that's evidence of absence. The only excuse you have for the lack of evidence is that God is hiding, which is ridiculously lame.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 11-27-2017 4:19 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 11-28-2017 1:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 500 of 591 (824418)
11-28-2017 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 498 by Faith
11-27-2017 6:31 PM


Re: Superficial versus soul commitment to Christ
Phat writes:
... I felt a pang of loss when I gave it up as a teenager...
I was just the opposite. I felt a sense of relief much like the descriptions of "salvation" that I had heard all my life.
Faith writes:
... under the influence of "enlightened" sophisticated friends....
I was definitely not influenced by peer pressure. To this day I've hardly ever met a professing atheist face to face. All of the peer pressure has been in the opposite direction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Faith, posted 11-27-2017 6:31 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 503 of 591 (824479)
11-29-2017 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by Phat
11-28-2017 1:04 PM


Re: Food For Thought
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
I'm just saying there isn't enough evidence to make the case for God, etc. plausible. Bigfoot is more plausible than God but I don't believe he exists. Even leprechauns are more plausible than God.
I'd love to hear your rationale for this one!
I'd like to hear your objections.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 11-28-2017 1:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 504 by Phat, posted 11-29-2017 2:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 505 of 591 (824482)
11-29-2017 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by Phat
11-29-2017 2:25 PM


Re: Food For Thought
Aquinas writes:
It could not be the cause of itself.
Why not?
Aquinas writes:
It could not come from nothing.
Why not?
Aquinas writes:
It could not be an effect in an infinite series of causes and effects
Why not?
And, of course, what Aquinas misses is that all of those could-nots also apply to God.
Phat writes:
I would argue that it is more plausible to believe in an infinite God Creator rather than an infinite pilotless and self-creating universe.
No, you would assert that. If you have an actual argument, present it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Phat, posted 11-29-2017 2:25 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 509 of 591 (824549)
11-30-2017 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 507 by Phat
11-29-2017 3:51 PM


Re: Food For Thought
Phat writes:
They wont take away my probability, however. I simply wont let go.
There's always a chance that you'll win the lottery - but is it a good investment?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Phat, posted 11-29-2017 3:51 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by jar, posted 11-30-2017 10:58 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 512 of 591 (824553)
11-30-2017 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 511 by Phat
11-30-2017 11:05 AM


Re: Food For Thought
Phat writes:
I take the truth statement: Somebody will win and switch its true implication into my own statement, namely I will win.
You can only win if you bet on Zeus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Phat, posted 11-30-2017 11:05 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 516 of 591 (824767)
12-03-2017 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
12-03-2017 11:18 AM


Re: Food For Thought
Phat writes:
Im still trying to figure out how logical people have concluded that the probability of a Creator of all seen and unseen is small.
You should be thinking about why you care about logic or probability at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Phat, posted 12-03-2017 11:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 525 of 591 (824846)
12-04-2017 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 524 by Phat
12-04-2017 10:57 AM


Re: The Reality Of The Lords Prayers
Phat writes:
Jesus also always referred to GOD as "My Father" rather than "Our father"... wonder why?
He also often referred to "your Father" so I don't see any significance beyond grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 524 by Phat, posted 12-04-2017 10:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 12-04-2017 11:12 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 527 of 591 (824851)
12-04-2017 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
12-04-2017 11:12 AM


Re: The Reality Of The Lords Prayers
Phat writes:
Perhaps I dont trust that His Will is for me to have to struggle.
Need moar communion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 12-04-2017 11:12 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 538 of 591 (826404)
12-30-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 537 by Phat
12-30-2017 9:50 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
The "fall" itself is evidence of guilt. God doomed every subsequent generation of humans to atone for Adam and Eve's "sin".
All that atonement is is introspection.
But in Message 471 you said:
quote:
Hell, if hell exists was never created for fallen humanity nor innocent children. You gotta work to get there.
Which is it? You have to work to get into Hell? Or lack of introspection gets you into Hell?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 9:50 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 12:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 540 of 591 (826409)
12-30-2017 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Phat
12-30-2017 12:04 PM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
To me, I would have to work to get there. Work on being selfish. Work on being proud and vain. Work on being ignorant of the reality surrounding my fellow man and myself.
It seems to me that most people have to work at NOT being selfish, proud, vain, ignorant, etc. Those tendencies are the excuse for concepts like The Fall and Original Sin. We know we have those tendencies but fundies like to think that "the Creator of all seen and unseen" didn't create them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 12:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 12:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 542 of 591 (826412)
12-30-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Phat
12-30-2017 12:25 PM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
All that He created was the possibility of them.
Sure. And if I dig a tiger trap in my front yard, all I'm creating is the "possibility" of trapping tigers. (Since there aren't many tigers around here, the probability is that I'll catch children instead.)
Phat writes:
I refuse to be left holding the bag for how my life turns out....
That says it all, doesn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 12:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 2:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 546 of 591 (826458)
01-02-2018 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 543 by Phat
12-30-2017 2:17 PM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
Phat writes:
I refuse to be left holding the bag for how my life turns out....
ringo writes:
That says it all, doesn't it?
Yes, basically it does. I will forever remain a believer,hopefully.
That's not what I meant. You said that you refuse to take responsibility. Believing in God has little to do with that.
Phat writes:
Perhaps the probability of God (and a friendly One at that) is a billion to one, but think of the payoff!
As I've said before, it's the payoff that I don't want.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 2:17 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by Phat, posted 01-02-2018 11:38 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 548 of 591 (826465)
01-02-2018 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 547 by Phat
01-02-2018 11:38 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
You said before that even as a child you never wanted to take the responsibility of surrendering yourself to God...
I don't think I ever said that.
It's self-contradictory, isn't it? How is surrendering yourself to God taking responsibility?
Phat writes:
Its not that atheists have no beliefs. They believe that they have made the right choice.
I didn't make any choice. My beliefs evaporated on their own. As I've said many, many times before, if there was a choice to make, I would have chosen to keep them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Phat, posted 01-02-2018 11:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 549 by Phat, posted 01-02-2018 12:00 PM ringo has replied

  
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