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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Trump's most recent punch-self-in-nose crisis (I'm talking about his denigrating comments about El Salvador, Haiti and Africa) raises the question, "Why is Trump doing this, and why is the Republican Party, especially Republican members of Congress, acting as enablers?"
The answer is demographics. Minorities tend to vote Democratic, and by 2040 minorities will be the majority group in the US. This Republican crisis looms large on their horizon because it means the end of their political domination at the local, state and federal level. There's also a component that wishes the country to remain as they see it, predominantly and dominantly white. So they are fighting this impending change by all available means. They're gerrymandering election districts. They're restricting the rights of minorities to vote. They're deporting as many immigrants as they can (children of immigrants are citizens). And they're attempting to close the doors to immigration from as many countries of minority races as possible. Trump today tweeted, "America First!" as a rebuttal, as if immigrants were not a strength of American character. Nothing puts America first more than insuring a steady inflow of new energy and ideas by keeping the doors open to immigration, especially from countries burdened by hardship. We don't need an influx of professionals and Masters and PhDs but of the poor and indigent and uneducated who will do the same as immigrant populations before them: work hard, improve their lot, and thereby improve the country. We also don't want to halt what has been termed chain migration, because separating and breaking up families makes success harder. Trump has been defended by some as just speaking the plain truth, saying what many are thinking but fear saying out loud. Conservative commentator Tomi Lahren said, "If they aren’t shithole countries, why don’t their citizens stay there? Let’s be honest. Call it like it is." This attitude ignores that the motivation to emigrate is from regions of distress, not from regions of prosperity and stability like Norway, a country Trump endorsed. It also flies in the face of the concept of the American melting pot and of the American ideal of showing compassion toward those in distress, which is why the El Salvadorans (earthquake) and Haitians (earthquake, too) are here. But most importantly it evades the true meaning of Trump's words, which is that if these are shithole countries then their people are shithole people, and shithole people shouldn't be allowed in. The realization that immigrants are a benefit, not a threat, comes hard for some. This country has had recurring difficulties living up to the ideal of welcoming immigrants (never more deplorably than in the years leading up to WWII when we made immigration by Jews from eastern Europe extremely difficult), showing that recognition that immigrants bring great benefits only comes with difficulty. The tendency to feel threatened is great, especially and legitimately by those in the least skilled professions where new immigrants are most likely to compete for jobs. These issues must be faced forthrightly, and frequently they're not. This isn't the first time the country has had the discussion of who and how many should be allowed in, and this is a discussion we should have, but it *is* the first time we've had such a vicious, acrimonious and callous racist-in-chief. The Washington Post just ran an editorial that uses this recent example of Trump shooting himself in the foot to make the point that Trump is his own worst enemy. Here are some excerpts:
quote: --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Well said! Before seeing your message I posted Message 1682, and I think it echoes many of the things you say.
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
caffeine writes: Somebody posted an article about it here.
Sorry, I missed that one. If NoNukes was talking about the article that was posted about the news conference introducing the new American ambassador to the Netherlands (why isn't "the" capitalized?), it's in Message 1583. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Trying to answer my own question about why the "the" in the Netherlands isn't capitalized, I found some very interesting information. First this from What's the Deal with the Netherlands?:
quote: The capital is in one city while the government is in another? That seemed strange, so I looked up "capital" at Dictionary.com, whose definition is basically the same as the one at Oxford Living Dictionaries:
quote: But then I used the dictionary feature on my Mac and got a different definition. I don't know what dictionary it uses:
quote: So that's why it's not a contradiction that Amsterdam is the capital while The Hague (where "the" *is* capitalized) is the seat of government. Concerning why "the" isn't capitalized in the Netherlands, I found this at Language Matters: Capitalization - Look at it Case by Case:
quote: But that still doesn't explain why. The "the" in the Czech Republic isn't capitalized either. Ah, found another website (The Netherlands, the Netherlands or Netherlands?), this seems to be the most relevant part:
quote: --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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From Fox News: MLK's Niece: 'Outrageous' That Critics Are 'Unjustly' Calling Trump Racist
Martin Luther King's niece is defending Trump against charges of racism? Checking her Wikipedia page, she's a Fox News Channel contributor and a Republican. Go figure. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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This Saturday Trump will have been in office one year, and in honor of that upcoming anniversary CNN describes the first year of Trump in the opinion piece The exhausting first year of Donald Trump's presidency. I'm going to quote the first few paragraphs, but most people will want to read the whole thing. One cannot keep in one's mind at one time all the outrageous actions and tweets of the past year because memory, for most of us, doesn't work that way, so this article accomplishes it for you succinctly and economically:
quote: --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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When Trump says, "I am not a racist," it brings back memories of Nixon's, "I am not a crook." But Nixon was a crook, and Trump is a racist. The New York Times today ran an opinion piece titled Trump Is a Racist. Period. Best excerpt is a quote by James Baldwin: I can’t believe what you say, because I see what you do.
AbE: Also from the New York Times is this opinion piece documenting the history of Trump's racism: Donald Trump’s Racism: The Definitive List --Percy Edited by Percy, : AbE. Edited by Percy, : Formatting.
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Republicans are apparently not only willing to support Trump if it helps further their own agenda, they're even willing to lie for Trump. Never was this more evident than on Sunday on CBS's Face the Nation when Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR), who was at the Oval Office meeting with Trump, not only denied hearing the president refer to El Salvador, Haiti and Africa as "shithole countries," he even denied that Trump had expressed the sentiment at all. He repeatedly iterated his own position that immigration should be merit based and claimed that Trump was actually expressing that position, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Cotton went further and accused Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) of misrepresenting Trump's words and of having a history of misrepresentations. See Sen. Tom Cotton says Trump's words, sentiments on immigration were misrepresented.
Another Republican meeting attendee, Senator David Perdue (R-GA) is also denying that Trump used the "shithole countries" term. He called it a "gross misrepresentation." Another Republican meeting attendee, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen also denied Trump used the term, saying that she didn't recall Trump using "that exact phrase." What turns these Republicans into liars for Trump? Have they no honesty and integrity? Do they think that "playing politics" is a license for lying, that it doesn't measure their character? Some Republicans are honest. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), another meeting attendee, stated that Trump's comments as reported in the media were essentially accurate. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
New Cat's Eye writes: He repeatedly iterated his own position that immigration should be merit based and claimed that Trump was actually expressing that position, despite all the evidence to the contrary. What is the evidence to the contrary? All I've seen so far is that it has been reported (by one person) that Trump said shithole countries. What's your source? Even Trump's tweet only denied the terminology, not the sentiment. Both Durbin (D-IL) and Graham (R-SC) say he used the terminology and expressed the sentiment that people from countries like El Salvador, Haiti and Africa aren't welcome. Reporter interviews of staff after the meeting confirmed that account. Many Republicans are facing the reality that Trump made those comments, especially since they're precisely the kinds of things that everyone knows Trump would say. Cotton and Perdue are lying. See Sen. Dick Durbin: President Trump used 'hate-filled, vile and racist' language in immigration meeting for a fairly detailed account. AbE: Here's another article describing the meeting and aftermath: Trump derides protections for immigrants from ‘shithole’ countries Your conclusion is that the people in the meeting are lying and the one person claiming otherwise is definitely the truth? I said that Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR) was lying when he denied that Trump even expressed the sentiment if not the words, and that Perdue comments were also lies. This is the self-evident conclusion given the wealth of evidence that Trump said precisely what he was reported to have said. It's not a surprise that Trump is lying - by now we've come to expect that he has only the most tenuous connection with truth. The big surprise is the brazenness with which some Republicans are willing to lie for Trump. Why? Is having presidential support for your agenda so important that it is worth compromising one's character? AbE2: Here's an analysis piece which discusses how the media should respond to profanity, and it reaches the same conclusion I have about lying for Trump: The words Trump uses, and the words the media must use in response:
quote: Given Trump's history of racism, do you really believe him when he says, "I am not a racist"? Did you see the James Baldwin's quote from my Message 1692: I can’t believe what you say, because I see what you do. It's not like Trump can hide who he is - he's been a public figure for a long time. Growing up in the New York metropolitan area I have a much longer familiarity with Trump (and his father) than most. His racism is not new news. Changing the subject, here's a nice opinion piece from The Guardian saying we have little to fear that Trump is waltzing down Hitlerian paths: If authoritarianism is looming in the US, how come Donald Trump looks so weak? Other recent articles have stressed that although the effects of Trump will likely be felt for a generation, especially in the judiciary, our institutions are actually standing up to Trump's assaults fairly well. --Percy Edited by Percy, : AbE. Edited by Percy, : AbE2.
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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New Cat's Eye writes: So did he say shithole or not? As soon as I read this I knew how I was going to reply, but first I read NoNukes reply, and he said the same thing I was going to say. Yes, I believe he said "shithole countries", but the particular adjective is not what's important. What's important is the sentiment expressed, which, to rephrase in greater detail, is that if you're from a country experiencing natural disasters, economic hardship, war, etc., or are just a country on a continent of many countries with issues ranging from problems no worse than our own all the way up to the worst sort of problems, then you're not welcome here. For the record, I'm against basing our immigration policies solely or even primarily on merit. The immigrants who built this country and made it great were not the best and the brightest but those most motivated to make a new and successful life for themselves. That they did it here and not somewhere else is our great fortune. Trump is making many potential immigrants question emigrating to the US, even those who would satisfy merit based approaches, and that is to our detriment. You ignored everything else I said to focus on the least important question, one which was answered anyway with all the evidence I presented that Trump did indeed say "shithole countries". There's also the issue of Republican senators Cotton and Perdue lying. Cotton even impugned Senator Durbin's reputation, accusing him of misrepresentation. This is just an example of the broader problem of the Republican party serving as Trump enablers. This thread is about the The Trump Presidency, but it has a strong undertone that questions Trump's fitness for office. Everyday brings new evidence of his unfitness and of his unwillingness to grow into or adapt to the role, and we stopped needing more evidence sometime around the end of the summer in my opinion, and of course other people will have different thresholds of evidence. But now with Trump's first year coming to a close there can be no one who questions, even those in Trump's base, that this president ignores presidential norms and decorum and treats the truth with reckless abandon. And many in the Republican party are playing the role of enablers, sacrificing their character and integrity on the pyre of political expediency. Trump places under constant siege our ideals and institutions. We have to somehow make it through these four years with them still intact. Too many Republicans are aiding Trump in his efforts to make chaos and mayhem his legacy. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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New Cat's Eye writes: It's important enough to be the focus of all the headlines... because someone said he said it Discussion makes it possible to delve into issues at a much greater level of detail than headlines. Try it. So far your three recent messages have had 4, 1 and 1 sentences, and seem focused at the most superficial level. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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New Cat's Eye writes: Regardless of the importance, it is the question I asked. As NoNukes and I have pointed out and described why, you are focusing on the superficial.
And your evidence is hearsay. Bravo Except it isn't hearsay. What the president said has been verified through a variety of sources by multiple news outlets. But much more importantly, the specific words he used is an insignificant issue compared to the sentiments he expressed, which you seem strangely uninterested in. Is it really your sole interest to defend Trump against the claim that he uses salty language? Who's going to believe that? And you're damning him by defending him about what matters least. When I composed the rules for this forum I purposely left out any rule about language, because it's the meaning of what you say that matters, not how you say it. What words Trump uses to express himself shouldn't matter, assuming children aren't in the room. What matters is that he used a term that left it unambiguously clear just how he feels about countries like El Salvador, Haiti and the entire continent of Africa. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
From the New York Times article Trump Comments, Infuriating Africans, May Set Back U.S. Interests (sorry, no link, can’t figure out how to get a URL out of the NYT app):
quote: Gee, they don’t believe it. I wonder why. 70% of the American people and the entire rest of the world know just what kind of racist, xenophobic liar we’ve elected president, why don’t you? Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
NoNukes writes: Except it isn't hearsay. What the president said has been verified through a variety of sources by multiple news outlets.
Actually, verification does not prevent something from being hearsay. It just means that the hearsay is likely reliable. There may be some legal definition you have in mind, but before writing that I looked up "hearsay" in the dictionary, which said it's:
quote: Another dictionary said it's:
quote: Since what the president said has been substantiated and verified, it isn't hearsay by these definitions. I touch on this verification issue in my next message where I review a Washington Post article detailing the meeting. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Sorry to reply to your message yet a third time, but this morning brought a Washington Post article titled Inside the tense, profane White House meeting on immigration. Let me take you through it.
Senators Durbin (D-IL) and Graham (R-SC) arrived at the oval office last Thursday expecting to meet with Trump to discuss their bipartisan immigration agreement, but that's not what happened:
quote: The congressional "hard-line conservatives" surrounding Trump were Senators Tom Cotton (R-AR), David Perdue (R-GA), Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA).
quote: Trump's racist character showed itself again when the topic of the Black Caucus came up:
quote: White House Chief of Staff John Kelly is clearly on board with Trump's agenda and language:
quote: About Trump's language:
quote: This is disturbing because Trump seems to want to let what his base rule what legislation he signs, rather than working towards compromises acceptable to all sides. The White House understood there was a brewing controversy but wasn't too concerned because the President didn't seem too concerned:
quote: Trump later denies he used the language but doesn't deny expressing the sentiments, thereby revealing his willingness to lie about even the littlest things:
quote: This little excerpt reveals Perdue and Cotton to be just what we thought they were, deceptive little liars for Trump:
quote: Oh, gee, I wonder why they declined to comment. I wonder if it could be because Cotton just blatantly and baldfacedly lied on national television on Face the Nation when he denied that Trump said the word (even if he did truly believe the president said "shithouse" instead of "shithole", claiming deniability on that basis is simply deceitful, deceptive and unprincipled), he even denied that Trump has expressed the sentiment that people from Haiti, El Salvador and Africa were not welcome. Perdue merely denied that Trump used the language, but that still makes him a liar. We have a profane, erratic, racist, xenophobic liar for a president surrounded by sycophants. Sad. --Percy
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