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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 321 of 868 (826904)
01-13-2018 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by Phat
01-13-2018 5:03 AM


Re: So What If God DID It?
Hi Phat,
I wanted to address this:
Phat writes:
To Everyone else: We believers somehow want all of you to believe as we believe
Phat what I believe is not necessarily what is required to please God. I might be lying or just plain wrong. But what God says is what is necessary to please Him. I am always announcing for the people not to trust what I say unless it agrees with what God's Word says. That is the reason I have spent so many years studying Greek and Hebrew.
So no I don't want everybody to believe what I believe. I do want them to believe what my eternal all powerful God says. But no one can make them believe, and God won't make them. It is completely the choice of each person.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by Phat, posted 01-13-2018 5:03 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Phat, posted 01-14-2018 1:33 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 333 of 868 (826933)
01-14-2018 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by LamarkNewAge
01-13-2018 11:55 PM


Re: So What If God DID It?
Hi LNA,
LNA writes:
This issue of life in the blood has to do with animals being allowed to be eaten by men after the flood.
Wherever you got your theology degree from you need to ask for a refund.
quote:
Leviticus 17:10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
17:12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
These three verses go together in the original text and cover the complete thought under discussion in them.
This was written to the children of Israel.
Verse 10 says any man (Israelite or sojourner) who eats any manner of blood will be cut off.
Verse 11 says the life of the flesh is in the blood. It also says blood has been shed to make an atonement.
Verse 12 says Therefore... no soul (living being) of you shall eat blood.
What are these verses talking about? Eating blood.
What is said concerning eating blood? Man forbidden from eating blood.
Why are they forbidden from eating blood?
Because the life of the flesh is in the blood.
What is the results of eating blood? Cut off from the promise.
Is the life of the flesh in the blood?
quote:
Bloodletting (or blood-letting) is the withdrawal of blood from a patient to prevent or cure illness and disease. Bloodletting was based on an ancient system of medicine in which blood and other bodily fluids were regarded as "humours" that had to remain in proper balance to maintain health. It is claimed to have been the most common medical practice performed by surgeons from antiquity until the late 19th century, a span of almost 2,000 years.[1] In Europe the practice continued to be relatively common until the end of the 18th century.
Bloodletting - Wikipedia
That don't sound like myth's or gods or religion to me. It sounds like the people that fancied themselves as medical people used bloodletting to treat sickness.
LNA writes:
(How people that call themselves Christian can be so ignorant about sacrifice (think Jesus!) always amazes me, except for my awareness of the total complete brainwashing that is always going on)
Why don't you get your facts straight before you start calling people ignorant.
I know blood was shed and used in sacrifices in the old testament. I also know the Israelites were not supposed to eat meat that the blood had been offered as a sacrifice. I also know God came to earth and took on the form of a man we called Jesus and shed the blood of that physical body at Calvary to buy mankind back out of slavery.
But the Bible Leviticus 17:11 says "For the life of the flesh is in the blood", which has been proven to be a fact by modern science.
Cut that any way you like.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-13-2018 11:55 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-20-2018 12:14 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 334 of 868 (826937)
01-14-2018 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by LamarkNewAge
01-14-2018 12:05 AM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi LNA,
LNA writes:
So did God come after the Universe?
quote:
The option I actually believe and have stated numerous times on this site.
4. The universe has always existed in some form just not in the form it is today. Somewhere in eternity past (I will let you guys guess the numbers) The all powerful eternal God I serve created the heavens and the earth in 1 light period (day as described by God Genesis 1:5). God spoke and the events you talk about taking place
happened, There was much preparation needed for the earth to be ready to be inhabited by mankind.
What part of eternal do you not understand?
LNA writes:
Because you never stated how God could get here.
I have always said God was eternal that means He has no beginning and no end.
LNA writes:
You keep saying that SOMETHING CAN'T COME FROM NOTHING but previously you seemed to be saying God did that very thing.
I have never said God came from nothing God is eternal, infinite.
LNA writes:
Can you please paste the text to your articles (like Hawking's) that no longer exist on the internet?
And can you please paste links to your articles when they are presently on the internet?
I said if I could find the article I would post them. But it does not matter he has already ditched them.
Any article I quote from I post where you can find it. If I missed one point it out and I will get the location.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-14-2018 12:05 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 335 of 868 (826945)
01-15-2018 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by LamarkNewAge
01-14-2018 12:16 AM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi LNA,
LNA writes:
Space is being created today, and even you would say it is naturalistic.
I don't know what that has to do with getting information past T=10-43 s., towards the zero side.
But maybe you or someone here could enlighten me on how space is being created today.
Everything is inside the pea sized universe that is supposed to exist at T=10-43 s.. There is nothing outside not even space? Although I have been told the universe is expanding. I have never had anyone explain how the universe can be expanding as there is nothing for it to expand into. If there is nothing outside of the universe there would not be any space for the universe to expand into. It would still be the size of a pea.
LNA writes:
The whole problem about this "beginning" being evidence that "proves God", is that you (and everybody else?) don't say where God came from.
We say, you just shut your eyes and don't see it on the screen. God is infinite.
LNA writes:
A genuine effort would reveal that the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS would quickly arise once we attempted a solution for how God came to be in the first place.
He didn't HE IS.
Either an eternal power created the universe or the universe has existed eternally itself. Science says the universe has not always existed. Energy and mass are interchangeable. But every time they change there is unusable power and it is lost. That means if the universe was eternal it would have to have an external power source, or it would have already run out of power and died a cold death.
LNA writes:
Space and Matter were part of something that always existed.
It would have to be something very powerful as there are a lot energy and matter in the universe.
But if there was a infinite amount of space and matter what would kick start it and cause it to form the universe.
LNA writes:
Space and matter evolved (or popped up under certain circumstances) from nothing.
quote:
Due to the weirdness of quantum mechanics, nothing transforms into something all the time. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states that a system can never have precisely zero energy and since energy and mass are equivalent, pairs of particles can form spontaneously as long as they annihilate one another very quickly.
The less energy such a system has, the longer it can stick around. Thanks to gravity — the only force that always attracts — the net energy balance of the universe may be as close to zero as you can get. This makes its lifespan of almost 14 billion years plausible.
Existence: Why is there a universe? | New Scientist
I agree those things can happen in our universe as this universe is full of energy that is everywhere. Including some that has never been see but is there to hold the universe together.
But when you have nothing you would have a system with zero energy to start with and there would be no energy to start.
If I understand what the above quote says correctly and:
Nothing equals zero energy.
Non Existence equals zero energy.
Since nothing equals zero energy absolutely nothing can pop into existence as a system can not exist without energy.
quote:
If you take inflation into account, which physicists think caused rapid expansion in the early universe, we begin to see why MIT physicist Alan Guth calls the universe the "ultimate free lunch."
emphasis added
Existence: Why is there a universe? | New Scientist
I love that business of 'think', but there is zero evidence for inflation.
Sir Roger Penrose declared inflation was a fantasy in the quote I used in one of my earlier posts.
LNA writes:
Space and Matter were "eternal" in the same way God is described as "always being there".
cavediver told me once that the universe just is. Which would be what you are stating.
Space is just that space. Matter is just matter, what would transform it into energy and where would the directions come from to get it to do anything.
You are making a great case for my eternal God who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-14-2018 12:16 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-20-2018 12:52 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 336 of 868 (826946)
01-15-2018 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by NoNukes
01-14-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
And there is no smallest number just bigger than zero.
Should I throw my text book away then?
The number T=1x10-6176 is equal to the smallest positive non-zero value that can be represented by a quadruple-precision IEEE decimal floating-point value.
If that number is wrong, what is the right number?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by NoNukes, posted 01-14-2018 1:29 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by DrJones*, posted 01-15-2018 12:14 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 357 by NoNukes, posted 01-18-2018 12:33 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 367 by Son Goku, posted 01-20-2018 3:57 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 337 of 868 (826948)
01-15-2018 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by NoNukes
01-14-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
Do you know why there is any current limit on our ability to opine on the state of the universe?
You can opine anything you fell like opining.
So how about opining as to what would be required to get information further back than T=10-43 s. That is what I was asking for. According to Son Goku it was a quintillion degrees at T=10-43 s.
It boggles my mind to even think about getting information from T=10-43 s that the universe is there and expanding.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by NoNukes, posted 01-14-2018 1:29 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 338 of 868 (826949)
01-15-2018 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by frako
01-14-2018 2:24 PM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi fraco,
fraco writes:
If you put 2 neutraly charged strips in a vacuum too close to gether to have space to form a virtual particle between them, the pressure from the vrirtual particles forming and coliding with the strands will push the strands together. On the quantum scale virtual particles are constantly poping in and out of existence, one positive one negative, and in the next moment they collide and cease to exists.
It does require a vacuum to exist for that to take place.
Is there a vacuum outside the universe where this process could occur?
I have been told here on this web site that there is nothing outside of the universe. That it is a self-contained universe that existed a T=10-43 s and was expanding.
That being the case the universe could not begin to exist by such a process.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by frako, posted 01-14-2018 2:24 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by frako, posted 01-15-2018 4:58 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 339 of 868 (826950)
01-15-2018 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Phat
01-14-2018 1:33 PM


Re: So What If God DID It?
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
Seems to me like you are doing what this cartoon suggests...starting with a conclusion. Which strictly speaking is not science.
The facts are already there and have been for over 2500 years. All I did was point out the facts. And I have known those facts for the better part of 68 years.
Phat writes:
Just because i believe that God exists does not prohibit me from questioning how believers think.
As long as you make comments like the one below I am not sure you belive God does exist.
Message 315
Phat writes:
Even if God exists and even if He is the God YOU understand
Making the statement "Even if" is questioning God's existence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Phat, posted 01-14-2018 1:33 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Phat, posted 01-15-2018 9:18 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 370 by Phat, posted 12-11-2018 12:58 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 347 of 868 (827078)
01-17-2018 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 340 by frako
01-15-2018 4:58 AM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi frako,
frako writes:
Is there a vacuum outside the universe where this process could occur?
A perfect one not even space and time "inside it"
You sure about that?
What science agrees with you?
There is an absence of anything outside the universe according to science. Unless I have been given false information on this site.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by frako, posted 01-15-2018 4:58 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by frako, posted 01-17-2018 3:20 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 351 of 868 (827130)
01-18-2018 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 341 by Phat
01-15-2018 9:18 AM


Re: So What If God DID It?
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
The reason that I frame my statements that way is to present my belief the way that many people at EvC would understand. jar taught me the idea that God cannot be proven, thus to frame the issue as a belief against reality is more honest than to declare that what I believe is reality.
How do you half believe? That does not seem logical.
If you want to discuss your pastor's conversation I think it would be better to start a thread with this post you made. Put it under Faith and Belief.
I think you have a problem believing Genesis 1:1.
But if you can't believe Genesis 1:1 you won't believe the rest. But if you believe Genesis 1:1 you will have no problem with the Bible. But if you study the Bible you will find in the translations where man put his stamp on it which resulted in mistranslations of words. But the original autographs contain no errors.
If you believe the Bible teaches the junk that Ken Ham puts forth and all the other YEC'S you are going to have trouble with that as it does not agree with the Bible or reality and what can be observed.
So if you would like to discuss what the Bible actually says start the thread as I suggested.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Phat, posted 01-15-2018 9:18 AM Phat has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 352 of 868 (827132)
01-18-2018 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 348 by frako
01-17-2018 3:20 AM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi frako,
frako writes:
You do know what a vacuum is dont you?
Yes I do. Do you?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by frako, posted 01-17-2018 3:20 AM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by Pressie, posted 01-18-2018 7:02 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 354 by Pressie, posted 01-18-2018 7:03 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 355 of 868 (827146)
01-18-2018 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 354 by Pressie
01-18-2018 7:03 AM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi Pressie,
Pressie writes:
Obviously you don't have a clue what a vacuum is, ICANT.
What type of a vacuum are you talking about.
I have a pump that when I need to evacuate the Freon in an air conditioner that I can hook up and pump all the Freon out creating what is called a vacuum. This is in order to draw everything out of the lines and compressor. It is then replaced with new Freon.
It makes no difference how long I leave the pump hooked up I cannot remove everything in the compressor and lines.
If you are talking about a vacuum inside the universe one does not exist. For the same reason I cannot get everything out of the lines and compressor.
Science says that 96% of the universe is made up of dark matter, and dark energy.
What is dark matter? We don't know.
How does dark matter function? It has to hold the universe together.
What is dark energy? We don't know.
How does dark energy function? We don't know.
Since dark matter and dark energy make up 96% of the universe there is no place in the universe that is not occupied by energy, mass, matter, dark energy and dark matter. Even in my lines and compressor that I have pumped on for a long period with a vacuum pump.
If you are talking about a vacuum that 2 branes could have banged together in and caused the universe to begin to exist, where did it exist and what caused it to exist.
If you are talking about a vacuum that my wife uses to pick up dust, dirt, and water off the floor and carpets. That is a machine that has a motor in it that turns a fan creating a suction that picks up things and deposits it in a tank with the air then passing through a filter and exhausting back into the outside air.
If you are talking about a vacuum as Physics you would be referring to space void of matter, or a place where the pressure is so low that any particles in the space do not affect any processes being caried on there.
That rules out any particle appearing and causing the universe to exist.
The definition of a true vacuum would be an absence of existence.
Now which one of those do you not agree with?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Pressie, posted 01-18-2018 7:03 AM Pressie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by frako, posted 01-18-2018 11:12 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 359 of 868 (827158)
01-18-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by NoNukes
01-18-2018 12:33 PM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
That means that the cited number is the smallest number that can be expressed in 128 bits using a particular computer format that you could not hope to understand. I certainly won't try to explain the format to you.
I am glad you agree that as stated the number is correct.
I also know that 64 bit and 32 bit has different numbers.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by NoNukes, posted 01-18-2018 12:33 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by DrJones*, posted 01-18-2018 2:18 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 361 by NoNukes, posted 01-18-2018 2:28 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 845 of 868 (863058)
09-19-2019 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
01-18-2013 8:33 AM


Re: Main Assertion: God is an uncaused first cause and was never made.
Hi Phat,
I just came back for a short visit and noticed this topic close to the top of the list and read the following statement about God and time.
Thugpreacha writes:
Anyway...my assertion and focus on this topic is simple. God was never made. God always was, is, and forever shall be...as long as there is time.
Phat time does not exist where God resides.
Time as you and I know it will cease to exist when the angel stands with one foot on land and one on sea and declares that time shall be no longer.
quote:
Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Forever and ever is eternal existence and answers the question "Who Made God". God is eternal in existence. But this verse declares that time will cease to exist at some point in future existence.
If God does not exist eternally, and has created the universe. The universe has to have existed eternally, due to the fact it exists today. Since energy and matter can not be created or destroyed they had to have existed eternally.
The biggest problem I have with the Standard Theory is that it requires me to have faith in and believe that the universe existed in an entity smaller than an atom that expanded into the universe we see today.
That assumption has to be accepted as a fact. Which requires more faith than to believe that an all powerful God created the universe, and everything in it.
I know most here say they do not have faith.
Either the universe has always existed in some form or it had a beginning to exist.
To believe the universe had a beginning to exist from non existence would take a lot more faith than I have.
God Bless

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 01-18-2013 8:33 AM Phat has not replied

  
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