The Tension of Faith

See the last couple paragraphs of Message 1493. The hateful things you've said have been quoted over and over again. This is just something you accept on faith. The beliefs of all religions are accepted on faith, except for religions like "The sun will rise tomorrow." I accept nothing on faith (the religious type of faith) except that there's a God who gives the universe purpose.--Percy

And yet you keep bringing it up. You even express the hope that we'll get what's coming to us on judgment day. The only one who doesn't recognize what her words say about her is you. You've got a blind spot the size of a Buick. Right, and for you the context is how people who don't repent from the sins you define deserve punishment, preferably eternal damnation. God's law is impermanent because it is the invention of man. You can call it God's law if you like, but all religious dictums are just laws invented by people. I just call attention to what you say. I wouldn't be so sure about that. A lot of evangelical's support Trump and voted for Roy Moore. In other words, apparently many evangelicals are a lot like you. You mean like Jesus "tolerating" Mary Magdalene? Being crucified between two thieves? Saying that he who is without sin should cast the first stone? Associating with sinners and tax collectors? It most certainly is. All your statements in the name of your evangelical beliefs give horrible impressions of evangelicalism. So if your gay friend with bad eyesight needed help picking out her wedding cake, would you help? This is a religious belief that you accept on faith. I accept nothing on faith except that there is a God who gives the universe purpose. You've said many hateful things on many topics (gay marriage, love, the heart, hopes for our eternal damnation, etc.) in this thread and many other threads. The choice to emphasize hateful views and actions were your own. You said yourself that the choice of evangelicalism was one you made personally after much study. You adopted the views you hold by conscious choice. Is there really that much of a difference between condoning sin and forgiving it? This is a religious belief that you accept on faith. I accept nothing on faith except that there is a God who gives the universe purpose. Oh, horrors, they've become liberal! Or to translate from Faith-speak, they don't believe the same things you believe. Baptists span a wide range of beliefs but are largely evangelical like you, so I don't know why you'd say that. Baptists are not all of one view on gay marriage, so it makes no sense that you're bringing them up. Some Baptist denominations are more liberal than others, and therefore more accepting of gay marriage. As you're well aware, that is not the definition of "heart" I was using. From context I clearly meant capacity for sympathy, feeling, affection. You have no heart. Really? So you'd welcome a gay couple into your congregation?--Percy

Oh, I don't know. Try burning a cross on someone's lawn or painting a swastika on a synagogue or participating in a lynching, and that's pretty conclusive that one has hate in their heart, unless maybe one is a psychopath.In Message 1522 you said: You had only one reply to Stile, Message 1502, the rest of your discussion was with Tangle. In that message to Stile you said the exact same thing that you said in Message 1518 that PaulK replied to: You replied to PaulK in Message 1520 quoting from Stile's Message 1501, strangely saying that you were providing context while not saying the words were Stile's or what message they were from: But Stile was as wrong as you. The law does have a say in whether a statement is hateful.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Typo.

I don't think so. In Message 1501 you said: I say this is wrong because you say "only". It isn't only such people who get to decide. Use of the word "only" is also why New Cat's Eye was wrong, because it isn't only the people hate is directed at who get to decide.Regarding your side of the question, someone who burns a cross on a lawn isn't necessarily feeling any hate. That's just the way they were raised, that you have to keep niggers in their place otherwise they get uppity and begin to feel they're as good as whites, and we all know that isn't good because it would upset the established order handed us by God himself, which would be bad for both blacks and whites. So the cross is burned with the most noble of intentions.The reality is that it's still a hate crime.And no one is claiming the law can't be wrong. I'm still bitter over the Brady suspension (that last for NoNukes - )As to whether hate is in the eye of the one who expresses it or the one who it is directed at, both are possible.--Percy

That's a kind of long answer. Maybe we can agree that the answer is complicated since hate sent can be unreceived, and hate can be received without ever being sent, and all kinds of other possibilities. The #MeToo movement is encountering a similar confusion of possibilities, where harassment isn't always unwelcome (the point Catherine DeNeuve made), and innocent actions can be interpreted as harassment (the point underscored by what happened to Aziz Ansari, see I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life).--Percy