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Author Topic:   Living with Cancer (from Cancer Survivors)
RAZD
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From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(2)
Message 151 of 179 (818671)
08-31-2017 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by NoNukes
08-31-2017 5:15 PM


Re: Time, cancer, and family: try CBD
Are you suggesting this as a quality of life thing? ...

Not just that, but possible cure or at least a minimizing of symptoms.

I'm in remission for 5 years now, and I do think a large part of that is using cannabis during and after my last chemo to alleviate the bad side effects.

The CBD oil is the non-psychogenic part of cannabis that has benefits for pain relief as well as scientifically documented tumor shrinkage.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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ramoss
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Posts: 3072
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Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 152 of 179 (818692)
09-01-2017 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by RAZD
08-31-2017 5:04 PM


Re: Time, cancer, and family: try CBD
I know someone who uses CDB oil to manage stomach ills due to the side effects of their epilepsy medication. She has to stay away from the 'other stuff' because she is job hunting. It does control her nausesa, and provide some relief for her ptsd.
This message is a reply to:
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Faith
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Posts: 27603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 153 of 179 (818702)
09-01-2017 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by RAZD
08-31-2017 8:10 PM


Re: Time, cancer, and family: try CBD
Not much was said on the video about its effect on the cancer itself, just one comment I think. Cannabis is supposed to have other benefits though, including stopping seizures, but I happen to know someone who was having seizures it didn't help. Not that it has to help everyone to be of benefit to some, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence for any of the claims. I'm convinced that some juices, particularly carrot juice, actually kills cancer, some kinds of cancer in some people at least, from the anecdotal evidence, but there doesn't even seem to be that much for cannabis' effect on cancer.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19478
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 154 of 179 (818703)
09-01-2017 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
09-01-2017 7:06 AM


Re: Time, cancer, and family: try CBD
Not much was said on the video about its effect on the cancer itself, just one comment I think. ... but there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence for any of the claims. I'm convinced that some juices, particularly carrot juice, actually kills cancer, some kinds of cancer in some people at least, from the anecdotal evidence, but there doesn't even seem to be that much for cannabis' effect on cancer.

I did a google -- lots of articles about the scientific results of studies on its effect

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cannabis+shrinks+tu...

The oil is a juice from the cannabis plant ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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Faith
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Posts: 27603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 155 of 179 (818727)
09-01-2017 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by RAZD
09-01-2017 7:15 AM


Re: Time, cancer, and family: try CBD
Could you just sum up the research? Thanks.

I've been reading around in the website Chris Beat Cancer which is all about natural/nutritional treatments. One of his interviews is with the mother of a child diagnosed with brain tumors at age three who started this kind of therapy with him at the point he was sent home to die -- he's six at the time of the interview, still alive, cancer-free, but not fully well -- and she mentions that part of the treatment is the oil you are talking about, but not for the cancer itself, for the seizures and the pain.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 154 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2017 7:15 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1108
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 156 of 179 (820156)
09-16-2017 4:34 PM


I just did a quick scan of the last page or so. Did THC come up?
There has been an outlawing of medical benefits research in the USA for a very long time. It is classified as a schedule 1 or 2 drug or something.

But a university in Spain has been doing research for many decades. It is called Comp.... University or something. Starts with a C and is spelling like COMP in the beginning.

I had a newspaper print out from the 1990s that showed something like 30% higher tumor - and more than 1 type of cancer -reduction compared to non THC users.

I need to google and try to find the university name.

edit
This might be it

www.google.com
university spain thc cancer Complutense

https://www.google.com/search?q=university+spain+thc+canc...

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


    
Phat
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Posts: 10659
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


(4)
Message 157 of 179 (820678)
09-25-2017 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Perdition
05-17-2015 4:01 PM


In Loving Memory Of An Eternal Cancer Survivor
Perdition, please feel free to lurk and visit us occasionally. Your Mother was very special here at EvC...I have recently been reading posts she made in 2003, before I was even here! She is an eternal cancer survivor in my mind. No matter whether one is a believer or a non-believer, we can all agree that her loving memory, her warm smile, and her optimism will live on eternally through her sons, daughters, and granddaughters.

Our prayers and warm thoughts are with you and your family as well as extended family.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

This message is a reply to:
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LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1108
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 158 of 179 (827274)
01-21-2018 10:08 PM


2 big success stories revealed this week (cance blood tests!)
On Saturday, January 20, my local paper had an AP article that showed a Johns Hopkins' (in Baltimore) study that had 8 different cancers average out at a 70% accurate "positive" for around 1000 people with known early-stage cancer.

The false positive rate for (around 1000)healthy individuals was less than 1%.

While reading the AP article,I was thinking of the news from a few months ago out of Taiwan.

The article actually covered that issue too (later in the text).

The results from that study had an 84% accurate positive for Colon Cancer. (though the false positive was 3% which is a bit high)

The 8 cancer Johns Hopkins test articles.

http://www.sciencemag.org/...promises-early-detection-cancer

https://www.msn.com/...detect-up-to-eight-cancers/ar-AAuRBGF

http://www.businessinsider.com/...s-promising-results-2018-1

https://www.voanews.com/...screening-blood-test/4214860.html

https://www.mnn.com/...ood-test-find-cancer-before-diagnosed

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/...cers-early-gives-promising-results

Here on FOX is Reuters story

http://www.foxnews.com/...-cancers-in-blood-study-finds.html

Found the actual AP story (that I mentioned above) in link below.

http://www.kentuckynewera.com/...11e7-97d4-ffa60914c84c.html

quote:

Blood test to detect 8 cancers early gives promising results

By MARILYNN MARCHIONE , AP Chief Medical Writer
Jan 21, 2018 Updated 7 hrs ago
ƒö
Scientists are reporting progress on a blood test to detect many types of cancer at an early stage, including some of the most deadly ones that lack screening tools now.

Many groups are working on liquid biopsy tests, which look for DNA and other things that tumors shed into blood, to try to find cancer before it spreads, when chances of cure are best.

In a study Thursday in the journal Science, Johns Hopkins University scientists looked to see how well their experimental test detected cancer in people already known to have the disease. The blood tests found about 70 percent of eight common types of cancer in the 1,005 patients. The rates varied depending on the type ¡X lower for breast tumors but high for ovarian, liver and pancreatic ones.

In many cases, the test narrowed the possible origin of the cancer to one or two places, such as colon or lung, important for limiting how much follow-up testing a patient might need. It gave only seven false alarms when tried on 812 others without cancer.

The test is nowhere near ready for use yet; it needs to be validated in a larger study already underway in a general population, rather than cancer patients, to see if it truly works and helps save lives ¡X the best measure of a screening test's value.

"We're very, very excited and see this as a first step," said Nickolas Papadopoulos, one of the Hopkins study leaders. "But we don't want people calling up" and asking for the test now, because it's not available, he said.

http://www.kentuckynewera.com/...11e7-97d4-ffa60914c84c.html


Here is the Colon cancer issue

http://www.cancernetwork.com/...ted-early-colorectal-cancers

https://www.dotmed.com/news/story/41152

http://www.latimes.com/...sy-cancer-lung-20150420-story.html

http://www.targetedonc.com/...cting-colorectal-cancers-early

LINKS UNRELATED TO THE 2 STUDIES I AM LOOKING FOR.

https://www.pressherald.com/...r-a-blood-test-to-find-cancer

From the last link (which is the only one that isn't from just a few days ago so far)

quote:

Posted June 4, 2016

¡¥Liquid biopsy¡¦ offers hope for a blood test to find cancer

Such tests are designed to pick up in the bloodstream small pieces of DNA shed by cancerous tumors ¡V information that then can be used to treat and monitor the disease.

By Laurie McGinleyThe Washington Post

CHICAGO ¡X The biggest study to date on new blood tests to detect and analyze cancerous tumors concluded that such ¡§liquid biopsies¡¨ are a reliable alternative to conventional biopsies, offering a potentially cheaper and less invasive way of monitoring malignancies.

The study, which involved genetic information from more than 15,000 patients and 50 tumor types, compared tumor samples from liquid biopsies with those from traditional biopsies. In the vast majority of cases, the genetic changes detected by the blood tests agreed with the mutations identified in the tissue biopsies.

¡§The findings suggest that liquid biopsies provide an accurate snapshot of the genomic landscape of the tumor,¡¨ said a news release that accompanied the data, which was released Saturday at the annual meeting of the American Society of Clinical Oncology here.

The liquid biopsy test used in the study was Guardant360, which looks for almost 70 mutations. It is made by Guardant Health, which also funded the effort.


Colon cancer is 2nd most common

quote:

Detecting it early: Using liquid biopsy to monitor colorectal cancer

According to the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), it is the second-most common cancer worldwide after lung cancer.

Updated: Dec 13, 2017 13:30 IST

Indo Asian News Service

Cancer is a terrifying disorder which has touched almost everyone in some way or the other. With incidents of cancer rising across the globe, scientists have been frantically researching to figure out solutions to treat this disease in the most effective and non-invasive manner.

Colorectal cancer encompasses both cancers of the colon and the rectum. According to the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), it is the second-most common cancer worldwide after lung cancer. In general, most colorectal cancers begin as a form of polyp. Some of these polyps can become cancerous over a period of years. The usual symptoms of colorectal cancer are diarrhoea, constipation, blood in the stool, abdominal pain and bloating, fatigue and unexplained iron deficiency in men.

There are several factors which can increase the risk of an individual for colorectal cancer. Several lifestyle-related factors have been linked to an increased chance of getting colorectal cancer such as obesity, lack of physical activity, certain types of diets, especially those including highly-processed meat, smoking and alcohol intake.

In addition, certain medical conditions such as personal history of inflammatory bowel diseases, family history of colorectal cancer or adenomatous polyps and an inherited syndrome such as Lynch Syndrome can predispose an individual to developing colorectal cancer.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/...IyaGJlI0w7r4sozl1HOz0I.html


Various articles around that are older.

quote:

Liquid biopsy may help doctors track changes in tumors

Biopsies can be arduous and painful for cancer patients, but necessary to accurately diagnose the disease and determine the best course of ¡K

Chicago Tribune1y

Liquid

'Liquid biopsy' blood test detects genetic mutations in common form of lung cancer

A simple blood test can rapidly and accurately detect mutations in two key ¡K

E Science News1y

¡¥Liquid biopsy¡¦ study offers hope for a blood test to find cancer

CHICAGO ¡V The biggest study to date on new blood tests to detect and ¡K

Denver Post1y

....

Lung cancer

What Is a Liquid Biopsy for Lung Cancer?

The pace of advancements in lung cancer diagnosis and treatment is encouraging for patients and the doctors who treat them. One such recent ¡K

US News Health5mon


This requires a subscription (statnews

https://www.statnews.com/...9/testing-liquid-biopsies-tumors

The statnews news looks negative in what little bit I could read.

This article below is 5 months old, and it shows us just how far we have come, with the 2018 release . This is older news and don't confuse it with the newer (sot of) breakthrough.

quote:

News
/
United States

'Liquid biopsy' spots early-stage cancers in blood

16 Aug 2017

A test that scans blood for tumour-specific DNA identified early-stage cancer in more than half of 138 patients with the disease, US researchers reported on Wednesday, marking a new milestone in the rush for so-called "liquid biopsies".

Several companies already offer tests that can detect cancer DNA in the blood of patients with late-stage cancers. Such tests are used to help guide treatment or identify whether cancers have returned after surgery.

Researchers behind the early-stage test hope it could be used to identify cancers at a stage when patients have a better chance at survival.

"To our knowledge, this is one of the first studies that has looked directly at early-stage cancers," said Dr Victor Velculescu, professor of oncology at Johns Hopkins Kimmel Cancer Center, whose study was published in the journal Science Translational Medicine.

In developing the test, the challenge was to identify rare DNA from real cancers while ignoring other types of genetic alterations that can occur as blood cells divide or genetic alterations that people are born with.

For the study, the team screened blood samples from patients with breast, lung, ovarian and colorectal cancers, looking for 58 genes typically linked with these cancers.

Overall, they were able to detect 86 out of 138 stage I and stage II cancers. They also sequenced mutations in tumours from 100 of the patients studied and found that in 82 patients, the same mutations found in the blood corresponded with those found in the tumour tissue.

They also tried the test on 44 healthy patients and showed it did not detect any cancer-derived mutations.

Velculescu said more studies would be needed in much larger populations to prove the test can safely and accurately identify early-stage cancers, a process that could take up to five years.

The hope, he said, is that it would identify cancers at a stage when patients have a better chance at survival.

First uses of the technology would be in patients at high risk for developing cancer, such as heavy smokers, he said.

In addition to being a researcher at Johns Hopkins, Velculescu is a cofounder of Personal Genome Diagnostics, a private liquid biopsy company.

The study was done by Johns Hopkins researchers, he said.

In June, Grail, a spinoff from gene sequencer maker Illumina, presented a feasibility study for its liquid biopsy test at American Society of Clinical Oncology meeting in Chicago. In that study, researchers analysed tissue and blood from patients with advanced cancers. Grail is also pursuing early-stage cancer detection.

http://www.aljazeera.com/...ncers-blood-170816204014824.html


Lots of news on this front, and this 40 year old sure hopes the good news keeps up.


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 159 of 179 (827275)
01-21-2018 10:23 PM


A Wired Liquid Biopsy article that is a bit pesimistic (to me it seems) despite news
This article takes into account the new 8 cancer study by Johns Hopkins.

https://www.wired.com/...w-liquid-biopsies-are-still-a-dream

It is unfortunate that cost will probably prevent typical doctor visits to include testing.

The colon cancer and liver cancer accuracy was close to 100% (if my memory is correct) so why shouldn't this be a part of testing (say once a year) for everybody over 40?

EDIT

Here is text from the actual AP story (the Wired is original research but based on the same story)

quote:

TESTING THE TEST

The test detects mutations in 16 genes tied to cancer and measures eight proteins that often are elevated when cancer is present.

It covers breast, colon and lung and five kinds that don't have screening tests for people at average risk: ovarian, liver, stomach, pancreatic and esophageal. Prostate cancer is not included. A blood test already is widely used — the PSA test — but its value for screening is controversial.

Researchers tried the new test on people whose cancers were still confined to where it started or had spread a little but not widely throughout the body. It detected 33 percent of breast cancers, about 60 percent of colon or lung cancers and nearly all of the ovarian and liver ones. It did better when tumors were larger or had spread. It did less well at the very earliest stage.


Ovarian and Liver cancer were over 90% accurate accuracy.

The AP article (which is not text from the Wired article) shows the Taiwan colon cancer breakthrough could cost as little as $150 in the United States though it is about $500 in Taiwan.

The Wired article seemed to peg the 8 cancer Johns Hopkins test at around $500 (unless they were just being general about what the average Liquid Biopsy will cost).

$500 is pretty good considering it covers 8 cancers and most at over 50% accurate positives.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10470
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 160 of 179 (827281)
01-21-2018 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by LamarkNewAge
01-21-2018 10:23 PM


Re: A Wired Liquid Biopsy article that is a bit pesimistic (to me it seems) despite news
The colon cancer and liver cancer accuracy was close to 100% (if my memory is correct) so why shouldn't this be a part of testing (say once a year) for everybody over 40?

How close to 100%? The population of folks over 40 is huge. Is a large number of false positives going to swamp the health care system even if the false negative error is less than 1%?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-21-2018 10:23 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 161 of 179 (827283)
01-21-2018 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by NoNukes
01-21-2018 11:16 PM


Re: A Wired Liquid Biopsy article that is a bit pesimistic (to me it seems) despite news
quote:

How close to 100%? The population of folks over 40 is huge. Is a large number of false positives going to swamp the health care system even if the false negative error is less than 1%?

I corrected my earlier text (that you quoted).

Liver and Ovarian rates were almost 100% accurate.

Colon cancer accuracy rate (in the sweeping Johns Hopkins SINGLE blood test to detect 8 cancers) was only 60%. (much higher in the Taiwan breakthrough test, which unfortunately only looks for Colon Cancer markers). False negatives were almost 0%

I suppose that the radiation spitting CT scan's rate (currently 70 million scans a year) will go up a bit.

I wonder what you wonder.

Just what is the problem exactly?

EDIT

The study was published in the journal Science then the recent stories were based on that revelation.

I need to find the Science link.

It was linked in the text from one of my above links (the ones that cover the sweeping 8 cancer blood test). A hyper link embedded in the text of one article, but I forgot to link the Science site. My computer crashed and I lost all of my links. I had like 25-30 windows open and lost stuff.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by NoNukes, posted 01-21-2018 11:16 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10470
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 162 of 179 (827284)
01-21-2018 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by LamarkNewAge
01-21-2018 11:28 PM


Re: A Wired Liquid Biopsy article that is a bit pesimistic (to me it seems) despite news
NoNukes writes:

How close to 100%? The population of folks over 40 is huge. Is a large number of false positives going to swamp the health care system even if the false negative error is less than 1%?

LNA writes:

Just what is the problem exactly?

I forgot who I was asking. Please forget that I said anything.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-21-2018 11:28 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 163 of 179 (827286)
01-22-2018 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by NoNukes
01-21-2018 11:34 PM


Re: A Wired Liquid Biopsy article that is a bit pesimistic (to me it seems) despite news
I was saying that the cost issues shouldn't be a problem to a government that is trying to increase military spending from $549 billion up to $700 billion.

$151 billion per year can cover a $500 test, and perhaps the cost can be lower.

(the false positives are about 8.5 per 1000 or 8,500 per one million or 850,000 per 100 million so the number of CT scans should be no more than a few percent above the over 70 million per year currently employed)

quote:

It gave only seven false alarms when tried on 812 others without cancer.

Here is the Wired article, minus the first 3 paragraphs.

quote:

On Thursday, Papadopoulos’ research group at Hopkins revealed a novel blood test based on the combined analysis of DNA and proteins that correctly detected eight kinds of the most common cancers with a range of accuracies—from 98 percent for ovarian cancers to less than 40 percent for breast cancers. Published in Science, the test is just one among many so-called “liquid biopsies” in development; noninvasive tests that classify cancers by identifying the tiny bits of DNA that tumors shed into the bloodstream.

Most published studies, including this one, focus on measuring and monitoring advanced tumor stages. A few liquid biopsies have even been approved to help match tumors to targeted drugs. But the dream is to develop a simple blood test to actually diagnose solid tumors in healthy-looking people. The scarcity of circulating cancer biomarkers (both in quality and quantity; tumor DNA makes up less than 0.1 percent of blood) has held those aspirations back for decades. But now, sensitive assays and computational platforms are driving the discovery of biomarkers and better ways to measure them, luring a pack of well-financed startups into the field.

In 2016, for example, the world’s largest sequencing company, San Diego-based Illumina, spun out a new company called Grail. Its mission is described as “detecting cancer early, when it can be cured.” This ambitious aim is supported by $1.2 billion of venture capital Grail raised last year, which it intends to put toward financing massive, population-based clinical studies and optimizing its sensitive sequencing technologies.

Grail has yet to publish any actual data (its website does advertise a commentary published in Cell last year). And neither has its chief rival in the Valley, a machine learning startup called Freenome. That three-year old company snagged a $65 million Series A last March, led by Andreessen Horowitz. Freenome isn’t limiting itself to the genetic breadcrumbs left by tumor cells—it looks to capture other disease signatures in the blood, like how the immune system changes in response to tumor microenvironments.

Of course, Freenome has offered scant details on how exactly that kind of test would work. “You show your cards at the end, not while you’re playing poker,” says Andreessen partner Vijay Pande, who heads the investment firm’s biofunds. “Publications indicate that you’re not interested in building a company.” That said, he does expect Freenome to publish in a peer-reviewed journal ahead of its first foray into the market.

When that could be, though, is anyone’s guess. To evaluate any of these blood screens, thousands of patients will have to get tested—and then researchers will have to wait for some of them to actually get cancer. That’s the only way to determine not only their predictive power, but also whether they lead to improved patient outcomes. The noninvasive screening tests available today—mammography for breast cancer, a protein-measuring test for prostate cancer—are rife with their own issues. Incorrect diagnoses waste time and money on treatments and burden patients with unnecessary anxiety.

More on Liquid Biopsies

Megan Molteni

Startups Race to Create Cancer Screens from DNA

Megan Molteni

Fast, Precise Cancer Care Is Coming to a Hospital Near You

K McGowan

A Radically Simple Idea Will Let Us Catch Cancer Before It’s Cancer

Liquid biopsy is likely to be beset by the same kinds of controversy, says Geoff Oxnard, a thoracic oncologist at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and a professor at Harvard Medical School. He routinely uses a single-gene liquid biopsy developed at Dana Farber to figure out which drugs represent the best options for his lung cancer patients. But will early detection versions one day be part of routine doctor’s visits? “No. I think these tests will help us better understand the risks for patients who already have a history of cancer in their family or who’ve already had something show up on a scan,” he says. “But I don’t think we have the kind of data we need to support liquid biopsy as a panacea for diagnosing cancer. At the end of the day, it’s still just a shortcut.”

Still, Oxnard pointed out that Papadopoulos’s test represents an important step forward. One, it starts to identify where a tumor might be located. That’s been a big limitation of liquid biopsies; OK, you’ve found cancer, but what do you do next? Where do you look for the tumor? Most mutations don’t tell you anything about location. But by layering in measurements for 31 additional proteins to their machine learning model, the Hopkins team was able, on the first try, to correctly identify the tissue of origin around 80 percent of the time colorectal cancers, pancreatic, and ovarian cancers.

The other advance is cost. Papadopoulos estimates the test could be commercialized for around $500, and cancer-spotting approaches that rely on ultra-deep sequencing could stretch costs for existing screening tests, which only look for a single gene. “This is great for the field and provides promise that these analyses will become a reality in the clinic,” says Victor Velculescu, an oncologist and colleague of Papadopoulos’ at Johns Hopkins, who has also developed liquid biopsy technologies, though he was not involved in the Science study.

The two have developed a sort of friendly turf war as they’ve turned Baltimore into its own little liquid biopsy hub. Both researchers have recently spun off diagnostics companies to further develop their own early detection technology platforms. Earlier this month, Velculescu’s venture, Personal Genome Diagnostics, hauled in a $75 million Series B led by pharma giant Bristol-Myers Squibb. That brings its total financing to $99 million, putting it on par with some of its better-known counterparts in the Valley, adding some bicoastal intrigue to the race to the market. Whatever the outcome, it’s patients who will ultimately be the winners.

“If it can even catch 50 percent of cancers that right now we have no way of screening for, that’s still 50 percent of patients who can now be treated in Stage 1, when they still have a chance,” says Papadopoulos. “It doesn’t have to be perfect to still save a lot of lives.”

Related Video

Science
Crispr Gene Editing Explained

Maybe you've heard of Crispr, the gene editing tool that could forever change life. So what is it and how does it work? Let us explain.

https://www.wired.com/...w-liquid-biopsies-are-still-a-dream


These 8 cancers (though there are many different types of each category, so that might complicate things) are a measurable percentage of new diagnoses each year.

https://www.cancer.gov/types/common-cancers

quote:

For 2017, the estimated number of new cases of colon cancer and rectal cancer are 95,520 and 39,910, respectively, adding to a total of 135,430 new cases of colorectal cancer.
....

Breast (Female – Male) 252,710 – 2,470

....

Colon and Rectal (Combined) 135,430

....

Liver and Intrahepatic Bile Duct 40,710
....

Lung (Including Bronchus) 222,500

....

Pancreatic 53,670


This chart was new cases per year but, before looking at lung & breast cancer, the 3 account for 122,000 out of the 470,00 deaths, per year, from the 13 most common types of cancer. Over 25%. Lung cancer included makes THE POSSIBILITY OF early detection for the 13 most deadly cancers number perhaps 276,000 out of 470,000 or around 57% (though the detection isn't 100% accurate so it would be more like 180,00 to 200,000) .

(the 40,600 female breast cancer deaths per year, and 400 male deaths, are not likely to be changed too much, because the detection rate was only 33% PLUS there is already a relative - by UNITED STATES STANDARDS - "mass deployment" of early detection tests )

(though the super deadly Pancreatic cancer comes from the Ras gene, like McCain & Kennedy's brain cancer, which spreads very quickly, so early detection might not strongly benefit those diagnosed with pancreatic cancer?)

There are over 125,000 to 150,000 more deaths per year though.

14,195 females in the United States died from ovarian cancer.

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/ovarian/statistics/index.htm

11,000 for stomach cancer

quote:

Stomach Cancer: Statistics | Cancer.Net

https://www.cancer.net/...er-types/stomach-cancer/statistics

This year, an estimated 28,000 (17,750 men and 10,250 women) in the United States will be diagnosed with stomach cancer. It is estimated that 10,960 deaths (6,720 men and 4,240 women) from this disease will occur this year. The incidence of stomach cancer varies in different parts of the world. Although stomach cancer is decreasing in Western countries, it is still one of the most common cancer …


Esophageal Cancer is super deadly

16,000 deaths in 2017.

https://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/esoph.html

That means that 7 of these 8 cancers account for 328,000 deaths out of roughly 601,000 deaths.

https://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/all.html

Exclude breast cancer, and you have a test that can detect cancers, at an early stage, that account for 328,000 out of 560,000 deaths per year.

About 58%.

For $500?

But:

Can the price be lower?

The AP story (ironically, because this specific test was on my mind for the last several months or so, as my local paper - months ago - called it the first major piece of evidence for cancer blood tests) covered the Taiwan Colon cancer breakthrough (I thought the Taiwan breakthrough was head and neck cancer though, but that could have been due to faulty memory on my part)

quote:

OTHER LIQUID BIOPSY NEWS

Also this week, Taiwan-based CellMax Life gave results on its liquid biopsy test, which looks for whole tumor cells shed into blood, at an American Society of Clinical Oncology conference.

Researchers tested 620 people getting colonoscopies or with confirmed colon cancer at a hospital in Taiwan. The company said its test had an overall accuracy of 84 to 88 percent for detecting cancer or precancerous growths and a false alarm rate around 3 percent.

The company's chief executive, Atul Sharan, said U.S. studies should start this year. The test is sold now in Taiwan for $500, but should cost around $150 in the U.S., he said.

Dr. Richard Schilsky, chief medical officer of the oncology society, said results are encouraging, but the test needs more study, especially to see if it gives too many false alarms.

"The last thing you'd want is a test that tells you you might have cancer if you don't," he said.


So, we have to ask what the actual cost would be if there isn't an issue of a company trying to make profits to both make up for the actual (successful relative to the specific) test's research (which is complicated due to the research costs of ALL OF the failures and dead ends), and THE necessity TO FUND FUTURE RESEARCH.

Blame the government for not paying talented people to develop the technological advances.

Don't blame the companies for having to make profits (the profits are what makes the research possible).

The worst problem is that there are "trade secret" issues that prevent technological breakthroughs from being shared ASAP like they need to be. The government wont invest the $150-$250 billion (or more)per year to develop the drugs & technology, so companies will hoard secrets for as long as possible. This hording includes the dreadfully long testing stage.

What overall advances come, will often end up taking 20-40 years (if one looks at all the spinoff research and the spinoffs of spinoffs) under the current system, when it could very well be less than 10 IF THE GOVERNMENT MAKES RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT A "SOCIALIST" POLICY REFORM.

The time issue understates the devastating consequences.

The fact is that "timing is of the essence" and many potential "Einstien-ish" individuals will never get the chance to get their hands (and minds) on this area of research, so many potential breakthroughs will never happen. The fact that overall technological progress will take 5 times longer understates the losses we suffer because there will simply be less hands/minds working on the problems when the technology is wrapped around (or under) patent protections. The losses simply can't be quantified. There could be more brilliant people working on the breakthroughs in 5 years (under a radically reformed government policy on research) than there ever will be in 30 years (under the current government policy).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by NoNukes, posted 01-21-2018 11:34 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by AdminPhat, posted 01-22-2018 7:55 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1841
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 164 of 179 (827287)
01-22-2018 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by LamarkNewAge
01-22-2018 7:53 AM


Admonition
You are getting a bit carried away with these long posts full of bare links and excessive googling. lets tone it down.

  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 163 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2018 7:53 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 165 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2018 8:08 AM AdminPhat has not yet responded
     Message 166 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2018 12:03 PM AdminPhat has not yet responded

        
    LamarkNewAge
    Member
    Posts: 1108
    Joined: 12-22-2015


    Message 165 of 179 (827289)
    01-22-2018 8:08 AM
    Reply to: Message 164 by AdminPhat
    01-22-2018 7:55 AM


    Re: Admonition
    I posted all the links because my "news" searches (on Bing) pulled up mostly unrelated stuff (to BOTH the specific story and especially the actual AP article I just read in my newspaper Saturday)

    I wanted people to have a chance to actually see news pages covering the actual targeted breakthroughs I was AWARE that they needed to read.

    I am proud that the Taiwan breakthrough was on my kind when I was reading the AP article on page 1 (it ended up getting covered at the end of the AP'S Johns Hopkins breakthrough article which was on page A2 in my local paper).

    I doubt many would have known that that was the only major breakthrough previous to this Johns Hopkins revelation (published in Science and linked in the WIRED article above).

    Few would know how to navigate the mess of stories on the NEWS pages.

    It was difficult to sort everything out, and I wish I linked even more before my computer crashed.

    There were more links I meant to include (a Telegraph story for example).

    This is a big deal.

    I have mentioned "cancer blood tests" before but didn't expect a big breakthrough quite so soon. (It isn't available, the AP story has the Johns Hopkins researcher telling people not to call him up and ask for the test because it is NOT available now and won't be for perhaps 5 years).

    A big deal.

    Huge.


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