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Author Topic:   Does Atheism = No beliefs?
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 360 of 414 (827461)
01-25-2018 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Tangle
12-19-2015 3:51 PM


Tangle writes:
We've done this to death in another thread so I'll just say this: agnostic is an anachronism that has had no sensible meaning since the enlightenment. We now accept that no-one actually knows whether there's a god or not. RAZD calls himself a deist and an agnostic, ringo says there's no god but isn't an atheist he's agnostic. I say I'm an atheist but I know that the non-existence of god can't be proven so I too am an agnostic.
Agnosticism is defunct as a concept. Ringo and I are atheists and RAZD believes in god/s
I'll say no more. Probably.
Just a quick question. What would you call someone who believes that there probably is an intelligent cause for our existence, but does not adhere to any specific religion, or even any particular belief in the nature of that intelligence? He isn't really theistic because he doesn't necessarily believe that this intelligence is at all involved with the world now, he isn't really a deist because he acknowledges that possibly he/she/it could be involved and he isn't an atheist either. Wouldn't agnostic fit that person better than any other term. I suggest that there is a lot of people who fall into that category.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Tangle, posted 12-19-2015 3:51 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by Rrhain, posted 01-25-2018 11:21 PM GDR has replied
 Message 367 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2018 3:16 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 362 of 414 (827464)
01-26-2018 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Rrhain
01-25-2018 11:21 PM


Rrhain writes:
What's wrong with "believer" and/or "theist"? That they don't have a fancy proper noun to attach to themselves doesn't stop them from believing.
Well you can’t call them a theist because they don’t claim to believe in an deity that is engaged in any sense with creation. He simply leans towards the concept of an intelligent creator of some kind but has no thought out understanding of why he thinks that is the case. He is somewhat atheistic in that he can’t say for sure whether or not this being exists and doesn’t hold any religious beliefs.
I don’t understand the objection to using the term agnostic. It certainly seems to fit the definition used in the last sentence of this wiki quote.
quote:
Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of the Supreme Being or deities.[1][2] In popular parlance, or when contrasted with deism, the term often describes the classical conception of God that is found in Monotheism (also referred to as Classical theism) or gods found in polytheistic religions; a belief in God or in gods without the rejection of revelation as is characteristic of deism. [3][4]
Atheism is commonly understood as rejection of theism in the broadest sense of theism, i.e. the rejection of belief in God or gods.[5] The claim that the existence of any deity is unknown or unknowable is agnosticism.[6][7]

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Rrhain, posted 01-25-2018 11:21 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by PaulK, posted 01-26-2018 1:06 AM GDR has replied
 Message 366 by Rrhain, posted 01-26-2018 3:02 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 364 of 414 (827466)
01-26-2018 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by PaulK
01-26-2018 1:06 AM


PaulK writes:
So we can call him a theist in the general sense, which includes Deists. As your quote says:
Not really. Here is the definition from merriam webster
quote:
the supreme or ultimate reality: such as
a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe.
He simply believes that life is the result of an intelligent creator. He doesn't believe that this intelligence is to be worshipped or that the intelligence rules in any sense of the word.
He can't be classified as a deist because has no idea whether this intelligence has any interest in this existence or not.
PaulK writes:
Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of the Supreme Being or deities
That broad definition is clearly right.
An intelligent cause for existence does not mean that it has to be considered either a supreme being, nor a deity.
He just doesn't have any beliefs other than the idea that we are more likley to be the result of intelligence rather than the chance collection of mindless particles.
Between the ages of 18 and 36 I considered myself culturally Christian but as far as my actual beliefs were concerned I was agnostic.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by PaulK, posted 01-26-2018 1:06 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by PaulK, posted 01-26-2018 2:29 AM GDR has not replied
 Message 368 by Rrhain, posted 01-26-2018 3:45 AM GDR has not replied

  
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