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Author | Topic: Should we teach both evolution and religion in school? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
fyi -- he said he was 10 in eighth grade iirc but not how many years ago that was, when he pretend dated the coin with 14C ... I'm sure you can look that up and correct yourself. Ah, that explains a lot... no wonder he mistrusts dating since ten year old kids are in the 8th grade in Oz. Prodigy I imagine.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Would that be as in II Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."? Not at all. It is ever learning to know the truths. For example: Once people thought the earth was young. We now know that was not true and that the truth is that the earth is at least four billion years old. Once people thought there had been a world-wide Biblical flood. We now know that is simply not true and that the truth is that at least during the period when there were humans there has never been a world wide flood. Once people believed that humans were a special creation. We now know that is not true and that humans are simply the product of evolution. Science helps us to come to the knowledge of the truth. Edited by Admin, : Fix typos.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick, and many other poor foundations like it have been buttressed to keep the confounded thing from looking unsupported. Again, you are simply showing your utter ignorance of science, reality or history. Radio Carbon dating is useful for the recent past, maybe sixty thousand years, but evolution has been going on for at least four billion years.
Pages and pages of arguments for it, but all the while the topic of the thread is derailed and ignored, because some people cannot see any value in creationism or ID. So far no one has ever been able to produce any evidence that might support Creationism or ID having any value. Perhaps you might provide some?
Some people would rather bend their energies disproving a lone class incident of no significance, than see an ounce of creationism or the Bible. Maybe you can produce an ounce of Creationism or the Bible. So far you have shown a total lack of understand of either. Have you ever actually read the Bible?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The coin story is true, and typical of teenagers, which I was at the time. What the mix up was did not concern me at the time and neither did I find out. It may be typical of really ignorant teenagers or of lying teenagers but not of reasonably intelligent or educated teenagers but the fact that if there had been a mixup (which there wasn't) it did not concern you at the time and neither did you find out would speak volumes about you were it true. How much carbon is in an Australian penny? If you test an object using radio-carbon dating that returns a reading of no measurable 14C what age will get returned? Did you not say " I have never believed the methods claimed for dating materials is correct, mainly because I had a coin from 1958 which dated at 2500 years old by radio carbon dating." in Message 557. Stop just making shit up. Again, if you test an object using radio-carbon dating that returns a reading of no measurable 14C what age will get returned? If the object contains no 14C or carbon of any form whatsoever what age would you get? In neither case could the answer be 2500 years. When you post absolute absurdities and continue to insist they are not absolute absurdities and in fact true while refusing to provide any support or evidence for your assertions should anything you post be taken seriously?
Creationism does not have to find evidence, because everything that exists, is proof of creation, rather than snippets from nature. And so you make another absurd assertion and even go so far as to declare that absurd assertions do not require support. You then followup that absurd assertion with a totally false assertion like "Once a person or society has decided to go down a certain track of philosophy which includes denial of the Creator, it is nigh impossible for them to see any evidence of truth outside of their head space." as though anything in either the fact that evolution happened or the Theory of Evolution that explains what is seen denies any creator. Compounding absurd statement with outright false statements does not help your case.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What you are saying is that evolution cannot be wrong because C14 dating proves it. That is the current opinion in the science world, which I believe will be proven false soon by those who have expertise in the field. Again you are simply showing that you are not just ignorant but willfully ignorant. I have in fact said just the opposite, that 14C dating is irrelevant to whether or not Evolution is a fact and the Theory of Evolution is the only explanation for the variety of life we see. Now 14C dating is another of the hundreds of proofs that neither of the Biblical Floods ever happened.
That is the current opinion in the science world, which I believe will be proven false soon by those who have expertise in the field. And yet another example of willful ignorance. No expert in chemistry or physics has been able to find any reason that 14C dating might even be suspect. In fact reality is just the opposite; the experts continually increase the accuracy of 14C dating and every new technology that has been developed provides direct support and confirmation of 14C dating. But if you would actually learn the answers to the questions I posed you would see why 14C dating is so disastrous to the Snake Oil salesmen that try to pedal the Young Earth nonsense.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
In my opinion, he was correct regardless of what you think. I tend to agree that categorizing all Christians as less intelligent than any other group or demographic is likely wrong and pretty silly; however there is the Christian Cult of Ignorance that enfolds all the Fundamentalists and most who identify as Biblical Christians that is demonstrably far less educated and far more ignorant than almost any other demographic. Anyone today that claims the Earth is young, that evolution is not fact, that either of the Biblical Floods ever happened, that Exodus happened as described in the Bible or the Conquest of Canaan happened as described in the Bible are at best showing willful ignorance, delusion or just plain lying. But none of that is related to intelligence or what should be taught in schools. As I pointed out back in Message 32:
quote: Edited by jar, : that ----> thanAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Colbard writes: Sorry, but you are so wrong and deceived, but then again how could you possibly know that. Well, we could possibly know that by examining the evidence you provide to support your lies and assertions. But you never provide any evidence or even reasoning to support your assertions.
Colbard writes: The same goes for the rest of you, sealing your own destinies by what you have sown. But what is it that we supposedly have sown?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
More bullshit.
Sorry but what you try to market is just classic Christian Cult of Ignorance bullshit. Mix oxygen and hydrogen and you get water. No program needed. No programmer or agent needed. No designer need apply. Leave water out when the temperature drops below 0C and it freezes and expands. No program needed. No programmer needed. No designer need apply. Nor is there any need for any preloading. Fortunately genetics includes the ability to create whole new combinations with no designer, no program needed. Edited by jar, : appalin spallinAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Here is what the biologist John A. Davison asserts: "The information for organic evolution has somehow been predetermined in the evolving genome in a way comparable to the way in which the necessary information to produce a complete organism is contained within a single cell, the fertilized egg." Yeah, JAD used to try to pedal that here himself. He said lots but never offered any support or evidence. But he was fun. I miss Ray too.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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It's also true that Rodnas spent his time here yanking chains and not responding to the discussion. Hit & run is a classic Biblical Christian/Creationist/Conman tactic but that does not mean it is not important to hammer home the point that the reason they do run is that their positions are indefensible and nonsense.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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As I pointed out back in Message 32"
jar writes: I believe that if we hope to ever get an educated citizenry we need to teach evolution (a science subject) and also teach about religion (a social studies or sacred studies subject). As I ask in the thread about Should Sacred Studies be part of a general public school curricula, "Should Sacred Studies, the study of religions, their history, their effects on society, the basic tenets of each and inter-relationships be taught as part of the general public education in the US"? My answer is "most certainly." We cannot ignore the effects that religion has had on the world and all of us living through those effects. Kids should learn that the Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God, the basic tenets of the Eight Fold Path, the writings of Confucius and Mencius, what Taoism says, the Vedas, Greek, Roman, Germanic and Norse mythology. Kids should understand the horrific acts done in the name of religion, particularly the Genocide carried out by Christianity. We need to educate our citizenry on the fact that religions, all religions, are the creation of man and that is true across the board.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
creation writes: Especially fake news origin sciences! Also kids should know man did not invent the bible. Unlike science, it is far far too evidenced and broad to be created by man. Except it is filled with fallacies, contradictions, errors and absurdities and the evidence shows it is simply the creation of man as all honest observers will acknowledge.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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creation writes: jar writes: Except, no. it is not anything like that. Except it is filled with fallacies, contradictions, errors and absurdities and the evidence shows it is simply the creation of man .. Which is why schools need to teach the facts about religion to counter the utter ignorance that is typical of the Christian Cult of Ignorance, particularly in the US. It is important the the subject of religion be treated honestly and the dishonesty, particularly common among the Calvinist, Inerrant Bible cults be exposed. The two mutually exclusive flood myths should be taught as well as the two mutually exclusive creation myths and the two mutually exclusive God characters created by the earlier authors of the Genesis 2&3 god and the much later creators of the Genesis 1 god. These are not opinions but rather facts and should be addressed in public education. Then the two different orders of creation found in the myths should be compared to the evidence found in reality. The Earth was not created in the beginning. The Earth was not created before the sun. Not one of the critters mentioned in either of the Genesis Creation myths existed in the beginning of life here on Earth. It is time the Christian Cult of Ignorance and Dishonesty was exposed for the shame and farce it is in reality. All honest thinking Christians should be appalled by it.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The Bible was written by humans, for humans of that particular period and society and is filled with contradiction, absurdities, fantasies, fiction, office memo, and even some worthwhile philosophy with a smattering of history generally concealed in propaganda.
The biggest weakness in the Bible is that it's failings are never corrected while science always tests and discards the failings. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Because I am a Christian and what I posted in supported by what is actually written in the Bible.
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