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Author Topic:   Creation
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 495 of 1482 (828066)
02-09-2018 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 494 by ICANT
02-09-2018 11:19 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:
It helps to know the source in a personal relationship.
Without that it is impossible to understand God's Word.
That happens a lot on the Internet. People develop a "personal relationship" with somebody who turns out to be completely different from the way they portray themselves.
So how do you know you can trust the source?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 494 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 11:19 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 12:18 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 497 of 1482 (828069)
02-09-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by ICANT
02-09-2018 11:35 AM


Re: days and dates
ICANT writes:
Please explain to me how Moses could have something called nouns when the word 'NOUN' did not exist until about 600 years ago.
The same way he could have stone tablets when the words "stone" and "tablet" didn't exist. He might not know what you were talking about but he'd still have his stone tablets.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 11:35 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 506 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:41 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 500 of 1482 (828076)
02-09-2018 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by ICANT
02-09-2018 12:18 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:
During the course of duration since then He has never told me anything that has proven to be untrue.
It's been proven untrue even if you choose to believe it's true. You jump through a lot of hoops to convince yourself that the Bible is true, even the parts that have been proven untrue.
My question was: How do you decide that the Bible is true?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 12:18 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 02-09-2018 12:35 PM ringo has replied
 Message 504 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 514 of 1482 (828105)
02-10-2018 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 501 by Phat
02-09-2018 12:35 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Phat writes:
Saying that the flood is untrue does not mean that the life and ministry of Jesus Christ is untrue.
It only takes one untruth to prevent the whole Bible from being true.
Phat writes:
More to the point, what is truth?
Truth is correspondence with reality.
Phat writes:
Is it possible to prove that Long John Silver is untrue?
Probably not.
Phat writes:
Did Jesus even exist?
If the Bible tells a story about a flood which we can prove is untrue, why would we trust it on other topics that can't be proven one way or the other?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 02-09-2018 12:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by Phat, posted 02-11-2018 4:15 PM ringo has replied
 Message 522 by ICANT, posted 02-11-2018 4:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 515 of 1482 (828106)
02-10-2018 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by ICANT
02-09-2018 1:10 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:
What has been proven untrue?
I gave you an example in Message 441:
quote:
Plants growing on the third day (Geneis 1:11-13) before the sun was created (Genesis 1:14-19).
That isn't even logically possible, much less scientifically or historically correct.
ICANT writes:
Genesis 1:1
quote:
In the beginning created God the heavens and the earth
That says the universe had a beginning.
quote:
Once upon a time there were three bears....
That story has a beginning too. But later on it claims the bears lived in a house and sat on chairs and slept in beds, so we have reason to question whether it is true.
Similarly, Genesis claims that there were plants before the sun, so we have equal reason to question whether it is true.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:10 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by ICANT, posted 02-11-2018 4:36 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 516 of 1482 (828107)
02-10-2018 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 506 by ICANT
02-09-2018 1:41 PM


Re: days and dates
ICANT writes:
Moses had no word we translate as noun.
He had nouns whether he had a word for them or not. If you believe he wrote Genesis, you don't have to go beyond chapter 1, verse 1 to find a noun: "God" is a noun, "heavens" is a noun, "earth" is a noun.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 1:41 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by ICANT, posted 02-11-2018 4:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 524 of 1482 (828161)
02-12-2018 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 519 by Phat
02-11-2018 4:15 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Phat writes:
Thats about the silliest thing you have ever written.
You have a habit of scoffing at things without thinking first.
Let's try this again: "It only takes one untruth to prevent the whole Bible from being true."
Some people believe that the whole Bible is true - every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, etc. Right?
If one thing in the Bible was false - e.g. the Flood - then the whole Bible would not be true, would it?
If one piece of fruit in the bag is not an apple, then the whole bag is not apples, right?
So what's silly?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by Phat, posted 02-11-2018 4:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 525 of 1482 (828162)
02-12-2018 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 520 by ICANT
02-11-2018 4:20 PM


Re: days and dates
ICANT writes:
You left out one word we classify as a noun.
So do you understand that Moses had nouns, even if he didn't call them nouns?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by ICANT, posted 02-11-2018 4:20 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2018 1:49 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 526 of 1482 (828163)
02-12-2018 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 521 by ICANT
02-11-2018 4:36 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:
If the universe is not an eternal entity it had to have a beginning to exist.
My point is that "the beginning" is the beginning of the story, not necessarily the beginning of the universe. "Once upon a time, God created the heavens and the earth."
ICANT writes:
Did the universe have a beginning to exist, how?
Please give me the scientific answer to both parts of that question.
We can only go back as far as shortly after the Big Bang. If there was a Big Crunch that initiated the Big Bang, we have no way of telling.
So trying to make the Bible agree with science won't work.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by ICANT, posted 02-11-2018 4:36 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 532 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2018 12:03 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 527 of 1482 (828164)
02-12-2018 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by ICANT
02-11-2018 4:46 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:
Which one of the nine problems that proves the BBT is false would satisfy you that the BBT is false?
Those are "shortcomings", not falsifications. They're questions that have not been answered yet.
ICANT writes:
Especially since you say it only takes one to nullify the entire Bible.
That isn't what I said. I said that if there is one falsehood in the Bible, then you can't say that the whole Bible is true. There still may be other truths in it.
I'll give you a different example from the one I gave Phat: If you have the binary number 11111111, you can say that every bit is 1 (true). But if you have the number 11111011, you can not.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by ICANT, posted 02-11-2018 4:46 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by ICANT, posted 02-12-2018 9:05 PM ringo has replied
 Message 531 by ICANT, posted 02-12-2018 9:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 534 of 1482 (828189)
02-13-2018 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 533 by ICANT
02-13-2018 1:49 AM


Re: days and dates
ICANT writes:
I believe Moses had words for people, places, and things.
But he had no word for noun so whatever he called them it was not a noun.
Nobody has said that he called them "nouns".
ICANT writes:
Therefore Moses did not know what a noun was.
He did know what a noun was, no matter what he called them. He must have known what they were because he used them.
This is why it's so hard to take you seriously: You don't understand English, so why would we think you understand Hebrew?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 533 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2018 1:49 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 535 of 1482 (828190)
02-13-2018 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 530 by ICANT
02-12-2018 9:05 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:
Isn't inflation supposed to correct most of those problems?
That is the reason it was postulated.
Now Sir Roger Penrose says 'inflation' is a fantasy. If inflation is a fantasy as he says then the BBT collapse's.
There are others that agree with him.
You claimed that the Big Bang was proven false. Message 522
Questions do no prove it false.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by ICANT, posted 02-12-2018 9:05 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by ICANT, posted 02-14-2018 11:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 536 of 1482 (828191)
02-13-2018 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 531 by ICANT
02-12-2018 9:54 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:
If you are talking about the Bible as it was originally written it was perfect without mistakes of any kind.
You have no way of knowing that because you've never seen it as it was originally written.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by ICANT, posted 02-12-2018 9:54 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 537 of 1482 (828192)
02-13-2018 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 532 by ICANT
02-13-2018 12:03 AM


ICANT writes:
Well the universe exists.
Did it have a beginning to exist?
or
Has it always existed.
That's an open question.
ICANT writes:
There is no such thing as the Big Bang.
Sez you. With your opinion and two dollars, I can buy a cup of coffee.
ICANT writes:
There was a beginning to exist that was stretched out.
Sez you. Your opinion on the Big Bang has less value than your opinion on the best flavour of ice cream.
ICANT writes:
Who is trying to make God's Word (the Bible) agree with science?
God's Word simply says that the universe had a beginning to exist.
Why are you saying that if you're not trying to reconcile the Bible with science? What theological difference does it make whether or not the universe had a beginning?
ICANT writes:
It said it at least 2800 years before Edwin Hubble discovered that the universe was expanding in 1929.
But the Bible doesn't say anything about expansion.
ICANT writes:
This discovery dictated that the universe had a beginning to exist.
No. It only means that the universe was once smaller than it is now. A series of contractions and expansions would produce the same observations.
ICANT writes:
That means science caught up to God's Word and agreed with what God's Word said.
But it doesn't agree. The Bible doesn't mention expansion at all.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2018 12:03 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by ICANT, posted 02-15-2018 2:19 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 546 of 1482 (828269)
02-15-2018 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 541 by ICANT
02-14-2018 11:33 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:
If you are going to quote me get the quote right.
I did. I copied and pasted it directly from your post.
ICANT writes:
Now if you have any evidence for the existence of inflation, dark matter, and dark energy please share it.
A shortage of evidence is not "proof" that the Big Bang is false.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by ICANT, posted 02-14-2018 11:33 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by ICANT, posted 02-15-2018 7:26 PM ringo has replied

  
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