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Author Topic:   The "science" of Miracles
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 504 of 696 (828121)
02-10-2018 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by Percy
02-10-2018 1:58 PM


Re: Consensus
Hume is arguing that past experience is proof that miracles can't exist. My own reaction is that this violates tentativity, but the essay itself addresses the question from several points of view, including the one that miracles are non-repeatable and a-scientific, a view you might share.
Have you recently changed your mind on this?
quote:
when John says that Jesus turned the water into wine we know that isn't true
Message 718
quote:
quote:
How do you know it isn't true?
Because it's a miracle.
Message 735
quote:
Regarding John and the miracles specifically, I think I've already explained this. The suspension of natural laws renders it false immediately.
Message 753
quote:
You think tentativity argues that the probability of anything lies in the range 0 < p <=1. I think some things are impossible
Message 908
Maybe they'd call it a miracle, maybe something else, but surely they'd call it something much shorter than "inexplicable phenomena that violate known natural or scientific laws."
Scientists tend to go for 'anomalous'. The precession of the perihelion of Mercury, for example was an anomaly in the 19th Century. It didn't seem to conform to Newtonian laws (ie., the known natural laws of the time).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Percy, posted 02-10-2018 1:58 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by Percy, posted 02-11-2018 2:53 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 520 of 696 (828152)
02-11-2018 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 517 by Percy
02-11-2018 2:53 PM


Re: Consensus
No, I haven't changed my mind about the impossibility of miracles
I was mostly concerned with your state of mind regarding tentativity. You said in this thread:
quote:
Hume is arguing that past experience is proof that miracles can't exist. My own reaction is that this violates tentativity
You took the 'Humean' position in the other thread, and I retorted tentativity back to you. It certainly seems like an entirely contrary position.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Percy, posted 02-11-2018 2:53 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by Percy, posted 02-11-2018 6:47 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 552 of 696 (828361)
02-16-2018 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 521 by Percy
02-11-2018 6:47 PM


Re: Consensus
Religion and science are two different contexts. In the context of the religious question, "Could any of the miracles claimed by religion be real?" tentativity, a scientific concept, is out of place. In the context of the scientific question, "What would mean to science if faced with inexplicable violations of natural or scientific law?" tentativity is perfectly at home.
I see. It explains your reasoning perfectly well. The reason for my confusion is that I see fallibilism (the notion that knowledge is tentative) as a philosophical position not exclusive to science but instead is an approach to epistemology. One that science has adopted in its epistemology, but can be found elsewhere - including in religious thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by Percy, posted 02-11-2018 6:47 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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