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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 499 of 1482 (828075)
02-09-2018 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by ringo
02-09-2018 11:24 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
So how do you know you can trust the source?
Glad you asked.
I have had a personal relationship with God since August 24, 1949.
During the course of duration since then He has never told me anything that has proven to be untrue. He introduce me to the most wonderful woman in the world that He had prepared for me. We met when I was fourteen because she was trying to make her boyfriend mad. She had cut her hair which made him mad as he had told her not to cut it. We spent about 8 minutes of the 10 minute recess talking after which we had to go to class as the bell rang ending recess. Her boyfriend had been watching us the entire time from the ag building. I had to go past him to get to my class as he was a classmate. He said, "I saw you sitting with my girl". I said, Louis you can forget her as I am going to marry her. After my graduation we were married June 3, 1957. We are still just as happy today as we were that day. We have always had what we needed, never lacking for anything. In fact most people would say we have lived a charmed life. I say it was because we put God first and He has blessed us far beyond our needs. I could spend weeks just recounting the things that have transpired in my life. Some of those things would be classified as miracles, which you would not believe.
I know you or no one else here will agree that these amount to anything. I saw how most of you treated Phat when he tried to explain some of his experiences here.
Let me say it makes no difference to me what you think. If I die and there is no heaven to spend eternity with the love of my life I will not have missed anything as it has been a wonderful journey of 60 years and 8 months together. We are looking forward to our 70th anniversary.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 11:24 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 12:27 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 502 by jar, posted 02-09-2018 12:54 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 505 by Tangle, posted 02-09-2018 1:29 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 503 of 1482 (828082)
02-09-2018 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 498 by NoNukes
02-09-2018 11:56 AM


Re: days and dates
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
If that were to occur, Moses would not understand a single word I said,
If you knew his language not modern Hebrew as he would not understand or even recognize modern Hebrew, there would not be a word that would translate as noun.
Modern Hebrew does have a word that will translate as noun.
All I am trying to say is that you cannot apply rules of modern English and modern Hebrew to a language that has been dead since 600 BC.
With that statement I will end my discussion of nouns.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by NoNukes, posted 02-09-2018 11:56 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 511 by NoNukes, posted 02-09-2018 3:42 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 504 of 1482 (828083)
02-09-2018 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by ringo
02-09-2018 12:27 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
It's been proven untrue even if you choose to believe it's true. You jump through a lot of hoops to convince yourself that the Bible is true, even the parts that have been proven untrue.
What has been proven untrue?
I am going to ask you some specific questions one at a time so you can think your answer over carefully. Anyone else can chime in that wants too.
Question #1 a 2 part question.
Did the universe have a beginning to exist, how?
Genesis 1:1
quote:
In the beginning created God the heavens and the earth
That says the universe had a beginning.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 12:27 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:13 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 539 by Astrophile, posted 02-14-2018 7:13 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 506 of 1482 (828085)
02-09-2018 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by ringo
02-09-2018 11:43 AM


Re: days and dates
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
The same way he could have stone tablets when the words "stone" and "tablet" didn't exist. He might not know what you were talking about but he'd still have his stone tablets.
Moses never mentioned tablet but he did mention stone some 53 times.
אבן is what Moses used that we translate as stone.
He also mentioned ספר 16 times which we translate as book.
ABE Moses had no word we translate as noun.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : Added comment ABE

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:19 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 507 of 1482 (828086)
02-09-2018 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 505 by Tangle
02-09-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
How you can interpret normal, everyday events like boy meets girl, boy marries girl, boy and girl live happily ever after as supernatural is beyond me.
That is simple. I know me and the woman I married is the only woman in the world that would have still been my wife after 60 years of putting up with me. Much less being happy to remain my wife.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by Tangle, posted 02-09-2018 1:29 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by Aussie, posted 02-09-2018 2:27 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 510 by Tangle, posted 02-09-2018 2:58 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 512 of 1482 (828100)
02-10-2018 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 510 by Tangle
02-09-2018 2:58 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
Well first off that is highly unlikely to be true and also impossible to know but even if it was true it's oviously no miracle.
How many people do you know who have been married to the same woman they first married for 60 years?

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 510 by Tangle, posted 02-09-2018 2:58 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by Tangle, posted 02-10-2018 3:19 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 517 by NoNukes, posted 02-10-2018 12:48 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 518 of 1482 (828144)
02-11-2018 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 517 by NoNukes
02-10-2018 12:48 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
That is quite impressive (to me at least) but a miracle? Perhaps not.
Well I think every person has a soul mate somewhere in the world that was created just for them. So to find that one out of billions on the very first try I consider to be a miracle.
I have several friends who have been married for a long time to the same person. One couple we know celebrated their 68th Anniversary one month before we celebrated our 60th Anniversary. We have friends who have been married for 30 or more years all the way to 59 years. I can count over 50 such couples. I even have a couple of couples that got divorced in their first two years of marriage then remarried, their second marriage has lasted for 38 years for one couple and 44 years for the other couple.
Everyone of those couples would credit their long relationship to having God in control in their homes. They attend church regularly like every time there is a scheduled or special service.
So if this was the only benefit I ever got from my relationship with God it would be worth it. We celebrated our 60th Anniversary as husband and wife June 3, 2017 by having a ceremony renewing our vows.
But maybe you don't accept it as a miracle but I do. I met my soul mate on the first try when she was 13 and I was 14 then when I was 18 we were married. To me this is just one of God's proofs to me that He is in control.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by NoNukes, posted 02-10-2018 12:48 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 523 by Tangle, posted 02-11-2018 4:55 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 520 of 1482 (828147)
02-11-2018 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by ringo
02-10-2018 11:19 AM


Re: days and dates
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
He had nouns whether he had a word for them or not. If you believe he wrote Genesis, you don't have to go beyond chapter 1, verse 1 to find a noun: "God" is a noun, "heavens" is a noun, "earth" is a noun.
You left out one word we classify as a noun. ראשית.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:19 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by ringo, posted 02-12-2018 11:05 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 521 of 1482 (828149)
02-11-2018 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 515 by ringo
02-10-2018 11:13 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
That story has a beginning too. But later on it claims the bears lived in a house and sat on chairs and slept in beds, so we have reason to question whether it is true.
They had to exist before they could live in a house or sit on chairs or slept in beds.
But providing it is false that they slept in beds, sat on chairs, or lived in a house, it is still true that they had to have a beginning for them to exist. That is unless they are eternal in existence.
The same goes for the universe.
If the universe is not an eternal entity it had to have a beginning to exist.
So I ask you again:
quote:
Question #1 a 2 part question.
Did the universe have a beginning to exist, how?
Please give me the scientific answer to both parts of that question.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:13 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by ringo, posted 02-12-2018 11:13 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 528 by caffeine, posted 02-12-2018 2:54 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 522 of 1482 (828150)
02-11-2018 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 514 by ringo
02-10-2018 11:04 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
It only takes one untruth to prevent the whole Bible from being true.
Which one of the nine problems that proves the BBT is false would satisfy you that the BBT is false? Especially since you say it only takes one to nullify the entire Bible. You can find all nine here: Page not found | Relativity and Gravitation Group
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:04 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by ringo, posted 02-12-2018 11:21 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 529 of 1482 (828176)
02-12-2018 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 528 by caffeine
02-12-2018 2:54 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi caffeine,
caffeine writes:
I believe the scientific answer would be 'Don't know'. Which is convenient since it's the same as my answer.
That is the only scientific answer to part two?
Now what about part one, did the universe have a beginning to exist?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by caffeine, posted 02-12-2018 2:54 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by caffeine, posted 02-14-2018 2:50 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 530 of 1482 (828179)
02-12-2018 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by ringo
02-12-2018 11:21 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Those are "shortcomings", not falsifications. They're questions that have not been answered yet.
Isn't inflation supposed to correct most of those problems?
That is the reason it was postulated.
Now Sir Roger Penrose says 'inflation' is a fantasy. If inflation is a fantasy as he says then the BBT collapse's.
There are others that agree with him.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by ringo, posted 02-12-2018 11:21 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by ringo, posted 02-13-2018 10:47 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 531 of 1482 (828181)
02-12-2018 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by ringo
02-12-2018 11:21 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
That isn't what I said. I said that if there is one falsehood in the Bible, then you can't say that the whole Bible is true. There still may be other truths in it.
If you are talking about the Bible as it was originally written it was perfect without mistakes of any kind.
If you are talking about translations there are many words translated wrong, some even intentionally. There have been mis-arrangements of the text, some unintentional and some intentionally. Some added and some left out.
So yes you can say that translations have lies in them, or untruths if you prefer.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by ringo, posted 02-12-2018 11:21 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 536 by ringo, posted 02-13-2018 10:49 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 532 of 1482 (828182)
02-13-2018 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by ringo
02-12-2018 11:13 AM


Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
My point is that "the beginning" is the beginning of the story, not necessarily the beginning of the universe.
Well the universe exists.
Did it have a beginning to exist?
or
Has it always existed.
ringo writes:
We can only go back as far as shortly after the Big Bang. If there was a Big Crunch that initiated the Big Bang, we have no way of telling.
There is no such thing as the Big Bang.
There was a beginning to exist that was stretched out.
ringo writes:
So trying to make the Bible agree with science won't work.
Who is trying to make God's Word (the Bible) agree with science?
God's Word simply says that the universe had a beginning to exist.
It said it at least 2800 years before Edwin Hubble discovered that the universe was expanding in 1929. This discovery dictated that the universe had a beginning to exist. Even produced Einstein's greatest mistake.
That means science caught up to God's Word and agreed with what God's Word said.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by ringo, posted 02-12-2018 11:13 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 537 by ringo, posted 02-13-2018 10:59 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 540 by Astrophile, posted 02-14-2018 7:46 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 533 of 1482 (828183)
02-13-2018 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 525 by ringo
02-12-2018 11:05 AM


Re: days and dates
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
So do you understand that Moses had nouns, even if he didn't call them nouns?
I believe Moses had words for people, places, and things.
But he had no word for noun so whatever he called them it was not a noun.
Therefore Moses did not know what a noun was. I know he had what we call nouns. But Moses did not know what we call nouns.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by ringo, posted 02-12-2018 11:05 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by ringo, posted 02-13-2018 10:43 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
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